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Old 04-29-2011, 10:14 AM   #651
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by 72winner View Post
I'm curious others thoughts. I hear folks talking about 20bi or 50 bi before moving up, but they talk about it as if they need that amount for the next level BEFORE they move up.

If I have 55 bi at 1/2 I'm more than fine taking my 5 bi for a shot at 2/5.

Is there a reason you'd really want to wait until you have 100 bi at 1/2 (50 at 2/5), for example, rather than taking a shot with a couple bi at the higher level but having a good BR for your fallback level?
the number is absurd, and based on the typical wr/100 for internet games. as has been discussed earlier itt if youre a reasonable winner at a game like 1/2 AND 2/5 the chances of breaking a roll much smaller than that are pretty small.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:35 AM   #652
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the number is absurd, and based on the typical wr/100 for internet games. as has been discussed earlier itt if youre a reasonable winner at a game like 1/2 AND 2/5 the chances of breaking a roll much smaller than that are pretty small.
Cut out 50 bi and substitute with w/e number. Maybe 20, maybe 10. Re-read question and answer. Point is about BR for moving up and why folks think they need full BR at higher level.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:45 AM   #653
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Cut out 50 bi and substitute with w/e number. Maybe 20, maybe 10. Re-read question and answer. Point is about BR for moving up and why folks think they need full BR at higher level.
So you mean just for shot taking? idk its pretty standard to take shots at a game before you have a full roll to play it regularly.

i think when people are talking about moving up theyre talking about playing the game regularly as opposed to merely taking a shot.

THere are always going to be people on the forum who advocate an uber-nitty BR policy because it makes them sound pro, but i think most would agree that theres nothing wrong with taking a shot at a game prior to being fully rolld to play it regularly.
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:09 PM   #654
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Can anyone link me to what page of this thread they discuss what a decent 500NL live player makes a day or a month?
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:40 PM   #655
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How fast can you run a mile?
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:41 AM   #656
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Yeah, I get this, but the point is that the game I'm playing is already only 50 bbs Max, so even staying at 1/2 current game I'm playing short stacked. I'm not sure if you noticed that the Max BI on the 1/2 is 100 and not the standard 200. Also buying in for 100 bbs would be less than the max at the 2/5. It seems like you didn't read the BI caps, which was the entire point of me thinking this might be worthwhile. It's no different than sitting down at a 1/2 table where many players are doubled up +.

And the 50 BI was entirely for example purposes. I'm way more of a take a shot with a stable base player.
Here's a couple thoughts...

1) If you haven't already, I would spend some time observing the game. See how it plays, standard raise size, number of callers, stacks sizes, etc.

2) It sounds like you're used to to playing a 50bb stack at 1/2. I don't see a problems with playing a 50bb stack at 2/5. You're already used to the dynamics of that stack size, plus, moving up in stacks and taking a shot, it might be wise to short stack it.

3) Here is a video on moving up in microstakes, admitedly, it's online, so it no all applies, but it has some bankroll dynamics to think about when taking shot - http://www.parttimepoker.com/video-a...om-microstakes

Hope it works out for you
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Old 04-30-2011, 01:04 AM   #657
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Can anyone link me to what page of this thread they discuss what a decent 500NL live player makes a day or a month?
$25-35 / hr depending on a ton of factors, assumes 100bb cap buy-in game.

$50 / hr def doable if you play primarily during peak hours, table select decently an are one of the better players in the game.
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Old 04-30-2011, 05:26 AM   #658
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Rake at my local casino is 5% up to 20E in a 1/2 game :-(

Can I beat it? ;-)
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:53 AM   #659
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What is 20e in usd?
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:47 PM   #660
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Rake at my local casino is 5% up to 20E in a 1/2 game :-(

Can I beat it? ;-)
Probably, yes.

Most places I play are a 10% rake. Your area has half the rake for small pots.

On really large pots (over $200) that's quite a rake, but it's only half on smaller pots.

How big are the average pots? What sort of PFR are you looking at typically?

If average pots are over $100 you are looking at more rake than many places but not unbeatable.

What is max buyin? Typical stack size?

If average pots are $200 then stack size must be massive so you're probably still OK.
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Old 04-30-2011, 04:30 PM   #661
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$25-35 / hr depending on a ton of factors, assumes 100bb cap buy-in game.

$50 / hr def doable if you play primarily during peak hours, table select decently an are one of the better players in the game.
What? How could u win 6bbs every 30 hands?
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:18 PM   #662
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What? How could u win 6bbs every 30 hands?
live poker
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:01 AM   #663
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live poker
bam.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:59 PM   #664
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Granted its a small sample size currently but i'm making around 45/hr at 1/2 down at foxwoods over about 200 hours now, and while I don't think its sustainable to maybe that extent long term, I could see 35/hr or so being doable for some people.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:02 PM   #665
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Granted its a small sample size currently but i'm making around 45/hr at 1/2 down at foxwoods over about 200 hours now, and while I don't think its sustainable to maybe that extent long term, I could see 35/hr or so being doable for some people.
If you have been just building your roll it is about time to start moving up or at least shot taking from 1/2. Play some 2/5 now. 45/hr at 200 hours is $9K.

Set yourself a rule to move down if you lose 5 BI's. You are on such a heater is sounds like though, it's a perfect time to move up and see if that heater continues at your higher limits.

I think making $20/hr at 1/2 is crushing it. So good job, and I'm sure you are having some run good.
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:39 PM   #666
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Yea obviously there has been some run good, but I tend to play LONG sessions often late into the night, where you sit with the same players for hours on end. I adjust well to how players are playing, where as the typical player at 1/2 at 3am is doing anything but.
I haven't really kept a separate bankroll, but I am right around 8500 at the moment in terms of profits, with a few losing sessions at 2/5 mixed in. I had a few bad sessions at 2/5 the few times I tried to move up (cooler situations), but i also didn't feel as comfortable playing the same style at that limit (LAG). Thats been the biggest hindrance to me moving up, having felt soo comfortable at 1/2 and making a good amount I didn't see the need to move up yet. Also I wanted to get to a good hour sample size to see what my true win rate might actually be.
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:07 AM   #667
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Gotcha, once you have $10K though I say you try and make 2/5 a more regular thing. The players will be slightly better but you will also get some real action gamblers too. To me it's the best game in my town. I just don't have to roll to playing it regulary right now. Grinding 1/2 for long sessions like you are until I can get enough to make 2/5 my regular game.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:46 PM   #668
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Assuming the following player characteristics:
Good, but not great player. Makes very few mistakes, but may miss on some marginal edges.
Online win-rate +2-3 BB/100 from NL25-NL100 over 1m+ hands(more than 1/2 coming at NL50)
Live experience profitable, but way too limited to make anything of it.
Biggest live weakness: Attention span - paying attention when out of hands, might get distracted by TV or conversation and not look for some things they should be paying attention to when playing live. (Which shouldn't be too big a deal at small stakes NL, but getting into good habits never hurts)

Should I have a positive expectation from the following game:
$1/1 $100 max buy-in
10% rake capped at $4 + $1 BBJ at $20 + $1 tip = potentially $6 removed from pot
Assumed $3-5 p hour in expenses.

What about $1/2 under the same circumstances.

Spoiler:
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Old 05-11-2011, 02:02 PM   #669
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im making 36 an hour at 1/2 but i only play weekends
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:33 PM   #670
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by OneOut View Post
Assuming the following player characteristics:
Good, but not great player. Makes very few mistakes, but may miss on some marginal edges.
Online win-rate +2-3 BB/100 from NL25-NL100 over 1m+ hands(more than 1/2 coming at NL50)
Live experience profitable, but way too limited to make anything of it.
Biggest live weakness: Attention span - paying attention when out of hands, might get distracted by TV or conversation and not look for some things they should be paying attention to when playing live. (Which shouldn't be too big a deal at small stakes NL, but getting into good habits never hurts)

Should I have a positive expectation from the following game:
$1/1 $100 max buy-in
10% rake capped at $4 + $1 BBJ at $20 + $1 tip = potentially $6 removed from pot
Assumed $3-5 p hour in expenses.

What about $1/2 under the same circumstances.

Spoiler:
obviously
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Old 05-11-2011, 04:53 PM   #671
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Online win-rate +2-3 BB/100 from NL25-NL100 over 1m+ hands(more than 1/2 coming at NL50)
With this rate you must be rolled for higher than $1/1. I would definitely jump to 1/2 or 2/5.

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Assumed $3-5 p hour in expenses.
By expenses, do you mean none poker expenses?(drinks, etc). These don't count IMO. As someone said in a different thread, "If a delivery person buys something in every store he stops at, he can't call these "job expenses". It's just spending $.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:07 PM   #672
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With this rate you must be rolled for higher than $1/1. I would definitely jump to 1/2 or 2/5.



By expenses, do you mean none poker expenses?(drinks, etc). These don't count IMO. As someone said in a different thread, "If a delivery person buys something in every store he stops at, he can't call these "job expenses". It's just spending $.
Barely rolled for $1/2. Would like to start out at the lower game for about a month though until I get the feel for live play. If a game with that much taken out of the pot is beatable.

Expenses mean travel (gas,tolls,parking or bus occasionally) plus food and the occasional room that isn't covered by comp. Just counting the essentials. Anything extra is discretionary and not counted.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:13 PM   #673
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Barely rolled for $1/2. Would like to start out at the lower game for about a month though until I get the feel for live play. If a game with that much taken out of the pot is beatable.
I would start at lowest game to get a feel for live play. It is real different. It could be beatable and at worst break evenable (is that a word?).
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:29 PM   #674
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i went on a 2120 upswing with one session being tht one post where i asked if i spewed with AK for $300. then today i drop 400 almost all of it coming when the loosest guy on the table, the guy who bluffs crazy, big station, calls wide, you know the guy we all want at the table catches a set after i bet hard on flop with TP and calls with nothing to draw to but the set and catches then he somehow balances his betting and bluffing range by betting exactly what he has been bluffing with and i call.

he got his stack up pretty qucik by also stacking someone else when he caught his GS on the river c/c the whole way, went from 300 to 1200 then back to 200 in maybe 2 hours top.

yea i was the only guy to pay him off.

edit, 2nd guy to pay himoff.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:05 PM   #675
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How would bankroll considerations change for 2/5 games having a $1000 max as opposed to a $500 max? I'm currently playing the 100bb games, with a ~$7k roll, but if I end up in a casino where the 2/5 plays deeper, should I stay away and play 1/2?

Fwiw I have no sample size or strict data, but I've been winning a decent amount in 2/5 (+1400 in ~30 hrs)
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