Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Winrates, bankrolls, and finances
View Poll Results: What is your Win Rate in terms of BB per Housr
Less than 0 (losing)
5 6.41%
0-2.5
0 0%
2.5-5
6 7.69%
5-7.5
8 10.26%
7.5-10
15 19.23%
10+
26 33.33%
Not enough sample size/I don't know
18 23.08%

01-31-2014 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havax
Hi all,

I currently dip into my bankroll each month to cover expenses and extra stuff and therefore it doesn't build on itself. I need it to supplement my job's income to stay afloat (I run a business that's still new so I make just enough to get by and use my poker earnings to supplement).

I currently make ~$18/hour according to my poker tracker playing Live 1/2 NL at a casino. I play about 3 times a week for 8 hours each. This is the only place I play. I'd like to separate my bankroll from living expenses and try and build on it separate from my normal life. Does anyone have a good system/way of doing this? Maybe say if I log a session where I win $600 I'll cash out $300 of the winnings and keep half the winnings in actual casino chips and keep doing this til my bankroll is purely in casino chips?


Ummm, spend less money? If you really need to have casino chips to acquire the self discipline to do this than go ahead but you likely lack the self control required to excel in poker... Not trying to be a dick but a small business owner and poker player needs to have self control to the point that they don't spend money simply because they have it
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 02:18 PM
There really isn't a system outside the one in your head.

If you need the money, would it matter which roll that money is sitting in?

Ideally, money in poker BR should never be used for anything but poker, but if you must take money out, I would recommend doing so by a number off overall BR, not per session.

For example, I could say that I will always keep $5k in my BR, and I can take whatever above it out to use. Don't take it out per session.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 02:21 PM
Easiest thing is to open a second bank account to use for poker money independent of your life money. You can co-mingle everything and just keep track of how much is life vs poker ... but even with good self discipline and record keeping it's more hassle than just opening an account.

It's hard to grow a roll while you're dipping into profits to live. I'd done it for a while and it flatlined my roll for a year. If your business is really struggling to get off its feet, you might be better served to spend more time on that and less on poker for a while.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist
Easiest thing is to open a second bank account to use for poker money independent of your life money.
Along those same lines, to possibly make it even easier, at my bank I have a checking account, savings account, and money market account. The money market account gets a slightly better interest rate than the savings account but also requires a higher minimum balance. Anyway, you could easily open up another account at your current bank like that or maybe you don't even use your savings account and could use it for this purpose. Just tell yourself that the money you put in "savings" or "2nd checking" or whatever you can set-up with your bank is poker money and have the discipline to not mingle funds. Just ask Full Tilt Poker how bad of an idea that can be ...

Even simple than that, you could just go buy a money envelope and only keep poker money there. For stakes like $1/$2 or $1/$3 it would work just as well.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatty
Along those same lines, to possibly make it even easier, at my bank I have a checking account, savings account, and money market account. The money market account gets a slightly better interest rate than the savings account but also requires a higher minimum balance. Anyway, you could easily open up another account at your current bank like that or maybe you don't even use your savings account and could use it for this purpose. Just tell yourself that the money you put in "savings" or "2nd checking" or whatever you can set-up with your bank is poker money and have the discipline to not mingle funds. Just ask Full Tilt Poker how bad of an idea that can be ...

Even simple than that, you could just go buy a money envelope and only keep poker money there. For stakes like $1/$2 or $1/$3 it would work just as well.
Thanks. Last question. How should I bring my money to the casino with me? If I'm bringing 3 buy-ins ($900) should I Just keep it in my wallet in my pocket? I see people wearing those loose backpacks with the strings to adjust the tightness. Do they really keep their roll in there? Isn't that unsafe to just leave hanging on the back of their chair?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 03:18 PM
I don't live close enough to a casino to play regularly so I usually just bring what I plan to play with that day whenever I go. So, 3 buy-ins in your example would work fine in your wallet or whatever you feel comfortable carrying money in.

I believe regulars in places like Vegas or LA typically keep money in a cage at the casino and just withdraw whatever they plan to play with there. I'm not sure if your casino offers that and again, for stakes like $1/$2 or $1/$3, probably not worth it since the main purpose is so people don't have to transfer thousands of dollars back and forth and risk getting robbed.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havax
Thanks. Last question. How should I bring my money to the casino with me? If I'm bringing 3 buy-ins ($900) should I Just keep it in my wallet in my pocket? I see people wearing those loose backpacks with the strings to adjust the tightness. Do they really keep their roll in there? Isn't that unsafe to just leave hanging on the back of their chair?
Backpack hanging off back of chair is a sign that one is good at poker- just ask all of 2+2

You can't prove to yourself and all other poker nerds that you are the next Tim Dwane unless you have a backpack, iPad, beats (preferably small backpack with strings)

It also serves to intimidate rec players from wanting to give you actions!

So yeah, no backpack= you suck at poker
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 03:35 PM
just take your stop loss with you (and it's good to have one IMO) in your wallet.

I personally keep my poker roll in cash in the safe at home. I take out my stop loss before I go to the casino and just carry it in my wallet.(2.5 buyins usually right now since I am playing on a short roll, plus I tend to play worse when I am losing, so a stop loss works well for me, though I haven't actually hit it yet)
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
01-31-2014 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havax
Thanks. Last question. How should I bring my money to the casino with me? If I'm bringing 3 buy-ins ($900) should I Just keep it in my wallet in my pocket? I see people wearing those loose backpacks with the strings to adjust the tightness. Do they really keep their roll in there? Isn't that unsafe to just leave hanging on the back of their chair?
Money in wallets is a bad idea. Wallets get pickpocketed easily.

Cards, ID, etc can go in a wallet. Cash should go in a pocket that's harder to get into. Front pocket with a money clip or rubber band is a better idea.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist
Easiest thing is to open a second bank account to use for poker money independent of your life money. You can co-mingle everything and just keep track of how much is life vs poker ... but even with good self discipline and record keeping it's more hassle than just opening an account.

It's hard to grow a roll while you're dipping into profits to live. I'd done it for a while and it flatlined my roll for a year. If your business is really struggling to get off its feet, you might be better served to spend more time on that and less on poker for a while.



This will kill you come tax time.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 02:38 AM
Makes literally no difference. Always pay your taxes no matter which system you use.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 03:09 AM
Has anyone ever posted a losing graph in here over a statistically meaningful sample?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 03:32 AM
Theoretically a losing player couldn't afford to play long term while acknowledging that he's losing.

I have 300-500 hours of break even graph if that's worth anything.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatty
Makes literally no difference. Always pay your taxes no matter which system you use.
Storing some cash in a box. Casino. A safe. Or anywhere that the government can't seize as easily is heavily advised. If one gets audited for being a professional gambler the first thing they will do is reconcile your claimed income and checking account deposits. More account deposits means more theoretical income which means more tax liability. Extremely simple.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutinsider
Storing some cash in a box. Casino. A safe. Or anywhere that the government can't seize as easily is heavily advised. If one gets audited for being a professional gambler the first thing they will do is reconcile your claimed income and checking account deposits. More account deposits means more theoretical income which means more tax liability. Extremely simple.
If you're a "professional gambler" you have to declare your winnings anyway.

This is complete bull**** advice. Tax evasion is illegal.

If you're making enough money to really live off poker you'll need to declare anyway, and the *more* documentation you have the better.

If you're a rec player making a couple of grand a year, either do the right thing and declare your meager winnings, or don't and hope they don't notice. But keeping a pile of cash at home is asking for trouble.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist
If you're a "professional gambler" you have to declare your winnings anyway.

This is complete bull**** advice. Tax evasion is illegal.

If you're making enough money to really live off poker you'll need to declare anyway, and the *more* documentation you have the better.

If you're a rec player making a couple of grand a year, either do the right thing and declare your meager winnings, or don't and hope they don't notice. But keeping a pile of cash at home is asking for trouble.


Obviously declare income. We just think different.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 08:36 PM
January stats ... Wanted to definitely put in more volume but damn I'm lazy!

Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 08:53 PM
2-5? 5-10?

Last edited by HappyLuckBox; 02-01-2014 at 09:12 PM.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 09:01 PM
On a side note, what kind of standard deviation per hour are you guys getting forom poker journal? Is a std of 285/hour at 2-5 considered low? I see alot of people have closer to 500/hr

I understand having a lower std means i can be more confident regarding my winrate, but its kind of weird having such a low std compared to others. I guess ive got a pretty low variance style.

Last edited by HappyLuckBox; 02-01-2014 at 09:10 PM.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox
2-5? 5-10?
most 2/5 ... some 1/2 waiting for a 2/5 table
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox
On a side note, what kind of standard deviation per hour are you guys getting forom poker journal? Is a std of 285/hour at 2-5 considered low? I see alot of people have closer to 500/hr

I understand having a lower std means i can be more confident regarding my winrate, but its kind of weird having such a low std compared to others. I guess ive got a pretty low variance style.
Seems pretty low. My standard deviation at 1/2 is $265 over about 250 hours tracked. 2/5 is around $420
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-01-2014 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyLuckBox
On a side note, what kind of standard deviation per hour are you guys getting forom poker journal? Is a std of 285/hour at 2-5 considered low? I see alot of people have closer to 500/hr

I understand having a lower std means i can be more confident regarding my winrate, but its kind of weird having such a low std compared to others. I guess ive got a pretty low variance style.
Prolly a bit depends on buy in rule where u play...so far as I know a common 2-5 game has a 1k buyin but some places like where I live have a 500 max buyin so my std deviation is generally gonna be lower compared to someone who plays with a 1k or even a no max buyin rule like they have 2 hours north from me and so on and so forth
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-02-2014 , 06:49 AM
My standard deviation is $143/hour at $1-$2 (BI = $50-$200), over about 200 hours. Agree with the statement about max buyin (or standard buyin) mattering a ton. The range of "how big" a game plays is pretty wide given that we tend to call $1-$2 the same game no matter where it is.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-03-2014 , 12:21 AM
Std $322/hr @ 500 max 2/5. Do you guys have any links to useful reads regarding taxes for poker players? Do people actually report earnings accurately?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
02-03-2014 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECGrinder
Std $322/hr @ 500 max 2/5. Do you guys have any links to useful reads regarding taxes for poker players? Do people actually report earnings accurately?
Use turbo tax and say you want to report gambling income, report all your winnings which makes agi lol high then deduct your losses.

It is a felony to not report income correctly and if you are depositing/withdrawing large sums of cash from the bank the government is watching you.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote

      
m