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Old 01-26-2014, 10:57 PM   #6251
BradleyT
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So if you live 8 hours from the casino your hourly is $5/hr but if you had a room at the casino your hourly might be $20/hr. That's just dumb.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:26 AM   #6252
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I think its natural and healthy to want to figure out this number for future planning. I don't, however, believe you should use it an excuse or method to work on your game.
That's inherently the problem here, people using it for future planning without understanding the nature of variance and that WR is not consistent given so many variables.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:17 AM   #6253
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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So if you live 8 hours from the casino your hourly is $5/hr but if you had a room at the casino your hourly might be $20/hr. That's just dumb.
Perhaps. Unless youre trying to figure out whether its worthwhile to get a room at the casino. Or play in a different, tougher game thats closer by.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:10 AM   #6254
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

2014 to date:
Profit: $2855
$/hr: $67.12
played: 42 hours, 32 minutes
Cashed: 6/7 (87%)
Bankroll: $3155


If anyone is interested in reading my LLSNL PG&C, here is the link:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...llsnl-1410059/
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:21 AM   #6255
minigolf26
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I track gas expenses out of my profits but dont figure it towards hourly. Each trip costs me about $20 in gas so that helps me.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:10 PM   #6256
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Hi all,

I currently dip into my bankroll each month to cover expenses and extra stuff and therefore it doesn't build on itself. I need it to supplement my job's income to stay afloat (I run a business that's still new so I make just enough to get by and use my poker earnings to supplement).

I currently make ~$18/hour according to my poker tracker playing Live 1/2 NL at a casino. I play about 3 times a week for 8 hours each. This is the only place I play. I'd like to separate my bankroll from living expenses and try and build on it separate from my normal life. Does anyone have a good system/way of doing this? Maybe say if I log a session where I win $600 I'll cash out $300 of the winnings and keep half the winnings in actual casino chips and keep doing this til my bankroll is purely in casino chips?
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:15 PM   #6257
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Hi all,

I currently dip into my bankroll each month to cover expenses and extra stuff and therefore it doesn't build on itself. I need it to supplement my job's income to stay afloat (I run a business that's still new so I make just enough to get by and use my poker earnings to supplement).

I currently make ~$18/hour according to my poker tracker playing Live 1/2 NL at a casino. I play about 3 times a week for 8 hours each. This is the only place I play. I'd like to separate my bankroll from living expenses and try and build on it separate from my normal life. Does anyone have a good system/way of doing this? Maybe say if I log a session where I win $600 I'll cash out $300 of the winnings and keep half the winnings in actual casino chips and keep doing this til my bankroll is purely in casino chips?


Ummm, spend less money? If you really need to have casino chips to acquire the self discipline to do this than go ahead but you likely lack the self control required to excel in poker... Not trying to be a dick but a small business owner and poker player needs to have self control to the point that they don't spend money simply because they have it
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:18 PM   #6258
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There really isn't a system outside the one in your head.

If you need the money, would it matter which roll that money is sitting in?

Ideally, money in poker BR should never be used for anything but poker, but if you must take money out, I would recommend doing so by a number off overall BR, not per session.

For example, I could say that I will always keep $5k in my BR, and I can take whatever above it out to use. Don't take it out per session.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:21 PM   #6259
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Easiest thing is to open a second bank account to use for poker money independent of your life money. You can co-mingle everything and just keep track of how much is life vs poker ... but even with good self discipline and record keeping it's more hassle than just opening an account.

It's hard to grow a roll while you're dipping into profits to live. I'd done it for a while and it flatlined my roll for a year. If your business is really struggling to get off its feet, you might be better served to spend more time on that and less on poker for a while.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:40 PM   #6260
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Easiest thing is to open a second bank account to use for poker money independent of your life money.
Along those same lines, to possibly make it even easier, at my bank I have a checking account, savings account, and money market account. The money market account gets a slightly better interest rate than the savings account but also requires a higher minimum balance. Anyway, you could easily open up another account at your current bank like that or maybe you don't even use your savings account and could use it for this purpose. Just tell yourself that the money you put in "savings" or "2nd checking" or whatever you can set-up with your bank is poker money and have the discipline to not mingle funds. Just ask Full Tilt Poker how bad of an idea that can be ...

Even simple than that, you could just go buy a money envelope and only keep poker money there. For stakes like $1/$2 or $1/$3 it would work just as well.
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:06 PM   #6261
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Along those same lines, to possibly make it even easier, at my bank I have a checking account, savings account, and money market account. The money market account gets a slightly better interest rate than the savings account but also requires a higher minimum balance. Anyway, you could easily open up another account at your current bank like that or maybe you don't even use your savings account and could use it for this purpose. Just tell yourself that the money you put in "savings" or "2nd checking" or whatever you can set-up with your bank is poker money and have the discipline to not mingle funds. Just ask Full Tilt Poker how bad of an idea that can be ...

Even simple than that, you could just go buy a money envelope and only keep poker money there. For stakes like $1/$2 or $1/$3 it would work just as well.
Thanks. Last question. How should I bring my money to the casino with me? If I'm bringing 3 buy-ins ($900) should I Just keep it in my wallet in my pocket? I see people wearing those loose backpacks with the strings to adjust the tightness. Do they really keep their roll in there? Isn't that unsafe to just leave hanging on the back of their chair?
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:18 PM   #6262
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I don't live close enough to a casino to play regularly so I usually just bring what I plan to play with that day whenever I go. So, 3 buy-ins in your example would work fine in your wallet or whatever you feel comfortable carrying money in.

I believe regulars in places like Vegas or LA typically keep money in a cage at the casino and just withdraw whatever they plan to play with there. I'm not sure if your casino offers that and again, for stakes like $1/$2 or $1/$3, probably not worth it since the main purpose is so people don't have to transfer thousands of dollars back and forth and risk getting robbed.
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:20 PM   #6263
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Thanks. Last question. How should I bring my money to the casino with me? If I'm bringing 3 buy-ins ($900) should I Just keep it in my wallet in my pocket? I see people wearing those loose backpacks with the strings to adjust the tightness. Do they really keep their roll in there? Isn't that unsafe to just leave hanging on the back of their chair?
Backpack hanging off back of chair is a sign that one is good at poker- just ask all of 2+2

You can't prove to yourself and all other poker nerds that you are the next Tim Dwane unless you have a backpack, iPad, beats (preferably small backpack with strings)

It also serves to intimidate rec players from wanting to give you actions!

So yeah, no backpack= you suck at poker
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:35 PM   #6264
Dubey
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

just take your stop loss with you (and it's good to have one IMO) in your wallet.

I personally keep my poker roll in cash in the safe at home. I take out my stop loss before I go to the casino and just carry it in my wallet.(2.5 buyins usually right now since I am playing on a short roll, plus I tend to play worse when I am losing, so a stop loss works well for me, though I haven't actually hit it yet)
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Old 01-31-2014, 03:40 PM   #6265
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Originally Posted by Havax View Post
Thanks. Last question. How should I bring my money to the casino with me? If I'm bringing 3 buy-ins ($900) should I Just keep it in my wallet in my pocket? I see people wearing those loose backpacks with the strings to adjust the tightness. Do they really keep their roll in there? Isn't that unsafe to just leave hanging on the back of their chair?
Money in wallets is a bad idea. Wallets get pickpocketed easily.

Cards, ID, etc can go in a wallet. Cash should go in a pocket that's harder to get into. Front pocket with a money clip or rubber band is a better idea.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:01 AM   #6266
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Easiest thing is to open a second bank account to use for poker money independent of your life money. You can co-mingle everything and just keep track of how much is life vs poker ... but even with good self discipline and record keeping it's more hassle than just opening an account.

It's hard to grow a roll while you're dipping into profits to live. I'd done it for a while and it flatlined my roll for a year. If your business is really struggling to get off its feet, you might be better served to spend more time on that and less on poker for a while.



This will kill you come tax time.
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Old 02-01-2014, 02:38 AM   #6267
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Makes literally no difference. Always pay your taxes no matter which system you use.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:09 AM   #6268
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Has anyone ever posted a losing graph in here over a statistically meaningful sample?
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:32 AM   #6269
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Theoretically a losing player couldn't afford to play long term while acknowledging that he's losing.

I have 300-500 hours of break even graph if that's worth anything.
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:47 AM   #6270
nutinsider
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Makes literally no difference. Always pay your taxes no matter which system you use.
Storing some cash in a box. Casino. A safe. Or anywhere that the government can't seize as easily is heavily advised. If one gets audited for being a professional gambler the first thing they will do is reconcile your claimed income and checking account deposits. More account deposits means more theoretical income which means more tax liability. Extremely simple.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:15 AM   #6271
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Originally Posted by nutinsider View Post
Storing some cash in a box. Casino. A safe. Or anywhere that the government can't seize as easily is heavily advised. If one gets audited for being a professional gambler the first thing they will do is reconcile your claimed income and checking account deposits. More account deposits means more theoretical income which means more tax liability. Extremely simple.
If you're a "professional gambler" you have to declare your winnings anyway.

This is complete bull**** advice. Tax evasion is illegal.

If you're making enough money to really live off poker you'll need to declare anyway, and the *more* documentation you have the better.

If you're a rec player making a couple of grand a year, either do the right thing and declare your meager winnings, or don't and hope they don't notice. But keeping a pile of cash at home is asking for trouble.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:40 PM   #6272
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If you're a "professional gambler" you have to declare your winnings anyway.

This is complete bull**** advice. Tax evasion is illegal.

If you're making enough money to really live off poker you'll need to declare anyway, and the *more* documentation you have the better.

If you're a rec player making a couple of grand a year, either do the right thing and declare your meager winnings, or don't and hope they don't notice. But keeping a pile of cash at home is asking for trouble.


Obviously declare income. We just think different.
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Old 02-01-2014, 08:36 PM   #6273
yaheardbish
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January stats ... Wanted to definitely put in more volume but damn I'm lazy!

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Old 02-01-2014, 08:53 PM   #6274
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2-5? 5-10?

Last edited by HappyLuckBox; 02-01-2014 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:01 PM   #6275
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On a side note, what kind of standard deviation per hour are you guys getting forom poker journal? Is a std of 285/hour at 2-5 considered low? I see alot of people have closer to 500/hr

I understand having a lower std means i can be more confident regarding my winrate, but its kind of weird having such a low std compared to others. I guess ive got a pretty low variance style.

Last edited by HappyLuckBox; 02-01-2014 at 09:10 PM.
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