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Old 01-15-2014, 08:44 PM   #6176
Turyia
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutinsider View Post
Thanks for the response, turyia. Lets assume a bankroll of like 80k. The sample consists of 280 sessions and average session length is 6 hours. The longest session is 17 hours, shortest is like 2 or 3. As far as each individual session...yikes! My average profit per session is $238.18. Is it possible to get a rough idea of my deviation without having every single data point?

Don't think I have that information readily at hand. However my best three sessions are $8400. $5585. $5285. my worst three are $5500. $5000. and $4500. Not sure if this helps at all?
Depends on how rough is good enough.

You don't have enough data to calculate your standard deviation... Based on others reports of observed SD, an overwhelming majority of winning poker players fall between 100 and 250 bbs per hour. which would be 245 -613 bbs/session (assuming 6 hour sessions). Since your winrate is in dollars, you will have to convert those numbers to dollars as well.

Generally, more aggressive players tend to fall at the top of this range, and more conservative players at the bottom... so make a spitball estimate at where you fall or just do the math with 245 and 613 and come up with a range.... not optimal and probably not very precise, but given the data its the best you can do and probably better than nothing.

Last edited by Turyia; 01-15-2014 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:49 PM   #6177
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
The whole point of determining your standard deviation is to determine how much your data fluctuates from the mean if I remember correctly.

Lets look at two simple samples:

-300, -200, -100, 0, 100, 200, 300
Average profit: $0
Std dev: $216

-100,-100,-100,0,100,100,100
Average profit: $0
Std dev: $100

So, that's why you actually need the individual sessions to get accurate results.
math is incorrect in both examples... 200 and 92.6
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:01 PM   #6178
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math is incorrect in both examples... 200 and 92.6
Shrug. I put =stdev(numbers) into excel. I trusted its results.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:43 PM   #6179
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Shrug. I put =stdev(numbers) into excel. I trusted its results.
Never trust excel stats.
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:08 PM   #6180
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Start to 2014...sustainable

This does not include my $1.25/hr in comps

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Old 01-16-2014, 12:16 PM   #6181
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Shrug. I put =stdev(numbers) into excel. I trusted its results.
Use stdevp()...
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:20 PM   #6182
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
Start to 2014...sustainable

This does not include my $1.25/hr in comps

Lol! Impressive session lengths so far though!

Gmylifetime2/4Limitwinrateiscurrentlysittingat$1.99/hr,nojokeG
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:33 PM   #6183
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Lol! Impressive session lengths so far though!

Gmylifetime2/4Limitwinrateiscurrentlysittingat$1.99/hr,nojokeG
I'm a 2/4 limit fish.

Life time stats:
6 sessions
2.01 hours
Profit: -$85
Profit/Hour: -$42.5/hour
BB/Hour: -10.65/hour

Wheee!
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:48 PM   #6184
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Lol! Impressive session lengths so far though!

Gmylifetime2/4Limitwinrateiscurrentlysittingat$1.99/hr,nojokeG
Yah I play a lot of 10-11 sessions interrupted by small breaks
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:55 PM   #6185
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
I'm a 2/4 limit fish.

Life time stats:
6 sessions
2.01 hours
Profit: -$85
Profit/Hour: -$42.5/hour
BB/Hour: -10.65/hour

Wheee!
Keep in mind that 2/4 Limit is basically unbeatable due to rake.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:04 PM   #6186
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
Yah I play a lot of 10-11 sessions interrupted by small breaks
Tips and tricks?

I've been forced to play marathon sessions lately (fewer available days to play + great evening games) and I keep spewing hard into like the 8-10 hours.

It's like perfect play, up $1K in hours 1-5. Drift off autopilot bleed $100 in hours 6-7. Comical/entertaining horrispew in hours 8+

It is seriously a consistent thing I've noticed.
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:17 PM   #6187
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Tips and tricks?

I've been forced to play marathon sessions lately (fewer available days to play + great evening games) and I keep spewing hard into like the 8-10 hours.

It's like perfect play, up $1K in hours 1-5. Drift off autopilot bleed $100 in hours 6-7. Comical/entertaining horrispew in hours 8+

It is seriously a consistent thing I've noticed.
Practice makes perfect. I'm trying to play my once a week session on a weekend, so my session length can be 10 - 11 hours depending on when the game starts (my average session length over my 201 sessions is now sitting at ~7.5 hours). Just really have to keep in mind that it's all one session, so it doesn't matter if you are at the start or at the middle or at the end of a particular session, or if you're up/down/even; you just have to play each individual hand as best you can.

I get up and stretch my legs/back constantly (although only missing a hand when I take a pee break). I drink water the whole time, and have a meal or two at the table. I'm guessing that helps a bit.

FWIW: I think I play like on autopilot most of the time, but my game can be beaten handily on autopilot.

GautopilotG
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:20 PM   #6188
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Tricks to these old geezers playing long sessions are actually pretty simple:

1. Play nitty - simplest of all strategy

2. Don't do anything crazy - doesn't require additional brain power

3. Knowing that go home means dealing with old lady and doing things that are more mundane than here - motivation
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:20 PM   #6189
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Tips and tricks?

I've been forced to play marathon sessions lately (fewer available days to play + great evening games) and I keep spewing hard into like the 8-10 hours.

It's like perfect play, up $1K in hours 1-5. Drift off autopilot bleed $100 in hours 6-7. Comical/entertaining horrispew in hours 8+

It is seriously a consistent thing I've noticed.
I play 10 hours almost every session (i usually has 1 hour drive to the casino or home games i attend), getting used to it now. For me personally it works to be aware of hand selection to yourself the whole time.

If you can remind yourself about keeping focused and remember how important it is not to spew/play to many hands/force things, i find that huge for my game. As you say, its so damn easy to play good for a long time and be up a lot, and then getting tired/lose your patience and then tilt/spew off a good amount of money.

Sit back and relaxe, take a cup of cofee or tea- and just focus of maintain your concentration. Make sure you eat and dont sit there hungry, thats a disaster for your patience. I often talk to myself inside my head when sitting there folding garbage when i am carddead: "this is earning me money, this is one of my edges, being able to keep calm and fold hands other players would play- and dont spew after playing for 8 hours."

Last edited by Gilmour; 01-16-2014 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:36 PM   #6190
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Tips and tricks?

I've been forced to play marathon sessions lately (fewer available days to play + great evening games) and I keep spewing hard into like the 8-10 hours.

It's like perfect play, up $1K in hours 1-5. Drift off autopilot bleed $100 in hours 6-7. Comical/entertaining horrispew in hours 8+

It is seriously a consistent thing I've noticed.
I don't really have any tips. I'm sure I am not as fresh in hour 9 as I am when I sit down but I have always had an ability to do things pretty well in long stretches. I do get up every 90 mins or so and walk a bit. i also leave to get dinner even though they would deliver to the table just to get a little walk and clear my head.

But I might just be lucky that I can play long sessions. When I was playing golf competitively and had to walk and carry 36 in a day I almost always shot lower scores in the afternoon round. I also have to work marathon sessions as I approach filing deadline (mostly April 15) and have always been able to get **** done late at night even though I am tired.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:26 PM   #6191
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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Tips and tricks?

I've been forced to play marathon sessions lately (fewer available days to play + great evening games) and I keep spewing hard into like the 8-10 hours.

It's like perfect play, up $1K in hours 1-5. Drift off autopilot bleed $100 in hours 6-7. Comical/entertaining horrispew in hours 8+

It is seriously a consistent thing I've noticed.
I put a list of reminders on my phone and it just takes practice
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:26 PM   #6192
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Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
I'm a 2/4 limit fish...
This quote triggered an immediate nap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
...I keep spewing hard into like the 8-10 hours.

It's like perfect play, up $1K in hours 1-5. Drift off autopilot bleed $100 in hours 6-7. Comical/entertaining horrispew in hours 8+

It is seriously a consistent thing I've noticed.
Where can I find you at this hour? Also, if I may suggest something im a huge proponent of for long, brain-strenuous activity are B-vitamins, Alpha Brain, Rhodiola Rosea, and Omega3/fish oil. They promote mental focus, stamina and energy. Alpha Brain is a Nootropic sold by Onnit.com read more about it there... the vitamins/oil I use every morning and then in the afternoon or early evening before a session. My daily routine for the past year has been: up at 645 (vitamins then foo), work till 4, home for 15 minute nap + b-vitas/alpha brain + food, then poker till 1-2am with rhodiola around 9pm. As of next friday, im done working and will be playing poker full time

Hope this helps.
Jake
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Old 01-16-2014, 03:27 PM   #6193
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

My advice would be to NOT put in long sessions. Most people play better when they play shorter sessions and take breaks. Most players would probably play MUCH better and make a lot more money on average playing 4 hours taking an hour break and playing another 4 hour session versus 9 hours straight.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:00 PM   #6194
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My advice would be to NOT put in long sessions. Most people play better when they play shorter sessions and take breaks. Most players would probably play MUCH better and make a lot more money on average playing 4 hours taking an hour break and playing another 4 hour session versus 9 hours straight.
This is good advice, too, and has been proven time and again. However, if youre in a mega juicy game, it may not be in your best interest to leave just yet. First off, if youre tired and playing, youre technically practicing your B or C-game, which will help your tilt and create more opportunities if u find yourself in a juicy game at a late hour by maintaining a high level of play.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:24 PM   #6195
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Phatty View Post
My advice would be to NOT put in long sessions. Most people play better when they play shorter sessions and take breaks. Most players would probably play MUCH better and make a lot more money on average playing 4 hours taking an hour break and playing another 4 hour session versus 9 hours straight.
This is really good advice. I usually play twice a week...one shorter 2-4 hour session during the week at a home game, then a longer ~8hr session on the weekends at the casino. At those longer sessions I've gotten into a bad habit lately of eating my comp meal at the table, when I used to get up and go to another restaurant in the Casino to relax and actually enjoy my meal. It's only a 30 minute break, but it makes a big difference in the later hours of my play. I need to re-commit to taking that break at the 4-hour mark.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:40 PM   #6196
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Originally Posted by NitroJake View Post
This quote triggered an immediate nap.


Where can I find you at this hour? Also, if I may suggest something im a huge proponent of for long, brain-strenuous activity are B-vitamins, Alpha Brain, Rhodiola Rosea, and Omega3/fish oil. They promote mental focus, stamina and energy. Alpha Brain is a Nootropic sold by Onnit.com read more about it there... the vitamins/oil I use every morning and then in the afternoon or early evening before a session. My daily routine for the past year has been: up at 645 (vitamins then foo), work till 4, home for 15 minute nap + b-vitas/alpha brain + food, then poker till 1-2am with rhodiola around 9pm. As of next friday, im done working and will be playing poker full time

Hope this helps.
Jake
Interesting post
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:49 PM   #6197
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I have found that players tend to play longer when they're stuck. Good for you guys who can play longer sessions and play well even when way ahead.
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:02 PM   #6198
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

According to bip!'s PGC thread, we should be hit-n-run'ing...
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:05 PM   #6199
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According to bip!'s PGC thread, we should be hit-n-run'ing...
As long as there are enough tables. It has some merit but it is time consuming live. Could be convinced otherwise.
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:19 PM   #6200
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According to bip!'s PGC thread, we should be hit-n-run'ing...
Lol :P

... $100k roll guaranteed If you sign up for my 30 week course, we teach you all the essential forms of "running":
- hit n running
- sun running
- running for stall 4 when you forget what happened the last time you ordered that...
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