Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em live cash games of all stakes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-23-2013, 10:46 AM   #6026
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 12,215
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Excel is the stone cold nuts
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 01:00 PM   #6027
fun101
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Excel is the stone cold nuts
If you know how to use it. I also use Excel to track my poker results, but if you don't understand how to use Excel properly it might be better to just use a smartphone app.
fun101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 01:08 PM   #6028
zoltan
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
zoltan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Off my lawn you little punk!
Posts: 21,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by fun101 View Post
If you know how to use it. I also use Excel to track my poker results, but if you don't understand how to use Excel properly it might be better to just use a smartphone app.
Using excel properly should not be a problem if you have a high school diploma or better.

I like using a session tracker (session logger) as I can easily keep track of rebuys and hours played more precisely.
zoltan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #6029
PoppaTMan
veteran
 
PoppaTMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Been using excel to track my results for a few years now. My main issue is that when I first started playing multiple games/stakes, I put them each in individual sheets. So having a running total or yearly/monthly breakdowns across all games isn't something I've figured out yet without just straight copy/pasting data.

If the cell formatting in all sheets is the same, is there an easy way to accomplish this? Or am I better off putting all of the data in a single sheet and adding columns for stake and game?

Last edited by PoppaTMan; 12-23-2013 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Should have refreshed thread before posting to avoid being exposed as a high school dropout =(
PoppaTMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 01:27 PM   #6030
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 12,215
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I am going to revamp my already pretty boss spreadsheet this Christmas break and if anyone is interested I can post what it looks like.

As someone who analyzes data sets 8-10 hours a day, entering in my own data is just way easier for me.

Everyone acts like its this huge complication to use Excel and not log it into a smart phone app.

You log (like in phone's notepad, or text yourself, or w/e)

Total in: (I log in terms of buy ins and in terms of $)
Total out:
Total time:

Then go home and enter that into a spreadsheet. It's really quite simple.

For a basic layout of columns:

Date|Stake|Buy in #|Buy in $|Total Out|Time|Comments

It's all on one tab with these multiple columns. Then there are summary tabs and graph tabs.

The great thing about using excel is functionality, I can quickly filter my biggest losses and see that 80% of them are 10+ hour sessions (tilt). I can make whatever graph of whatever data I want. I can see how profitable Tuesdays are (yes I realize several phone apps can do this) I can read through my comments after a month's worth of sessions and see how my thoughts relate from session to session.
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #6031
fredd-bird
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fredd-bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: KG
Posts: 19,330
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I use Google Drive so I have the convenience of logging via phone at the end of a session or the computer once I get home.
fredd-bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 01:34 PM   #6032
bubonicplay
Pooh-Bah
 
bubonicplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LV, $$
Posts: 3,934
The nice thing about an app is, after a session you plug the data into your phone.

You skip the step of writing it down on a piece of paper or a note in your phone, then into your computer later.
bubonicplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 02:23 PM   #6033
iraisetoomuch
banned
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 34,456
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaTMan View Post
Been using excel to track my results for a few years now. My main issue is that when I first started playing multiple games/stakes, I put them each in individual sheets. So having a running total or yearly/monthly breakdowns across all games isn't something I've figured out yet without just straight copy/pasting data.

If the cell formatting in all sheets is the same, is there an easy way to accomplish this? Or am I better off putting all of the data in a single sheet and adding columns for stake and game?
The easiest way to do this is to post the BB as a column. Then you can do a few different things with it.

I currently have something that looks a lot like:
This Spreadsheet
The stakes, and the cash out amounts are changed, but the ideas are still the same.

Much like Avarita was saying, you can then filter it based on the day of week, stake, month, any other relevant data that you are interested in tracking.

You can add additional information, add more details, have other summaries.
Really anything that you want.

Any data that you can write down, you can put into your spread sheet.

I'm also starting to track vpip/cBet/3bet/prf and other stats. Which I'm going to start adding into my sheet. Then you can start to see when you win/lose how loose/tight you are playing and things of that nature.

I'm fairly good with excel, so if you have questions about getting summaries of data or really most other things with excel PM me or post it here and I'll be glad to try and help you.
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 06:29 PM   #6034
DeuceSeven
Pooh-Bah
 
DeuceSeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Social Assassin
Posts: 4,592
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I keep track using the stop watch on my android phone and then I use google keep which is a note taking app to keep track of when I started(in case my phone crashes and erases the timer) and how much I cashed out + any other misc notes. The great thing about google keep is it instantaneously puts my notes in my google keep apps on my laptop and tablet.

Then with either my laptop or tablet i enter my data into www.pokerdominator.com
DeuceSeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #6035
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,732
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
I am going to revamp my already pretty boss spreadsheet this Christmas break and if anyone is interested I can post what it looks like.

As someone who analyzes data sets 8-10 hours a day, entering in my own data is just way easier for me.

Everyone acts like its this huge complication to use Excel and not log it into a smart phone app.

You log (like in phone's notepad, or text yourself, or w/e)

Total in: (I log in terms of buy ins and in terms of $)
Total out:
Total time:

Then go home and enter that into a spreadsheet. It's really quite simple.

For a basic layout of columns:

Date|Stake|Buy in #|Buy in $|Total Out|Time|Comments

It's all on one tab with these multiple columns. Then there are summary tabs and graph tabs.

The great thing about using excel is functionality, I can quickly filter my biggest losses and see that 80% of them are 10+ hour sessions (tilt). I can make whatever graph of whatever data I want. I can see how profitable Tuesdays are (yes I realize several phone apps can do this) I can read through my comments after a month's worth of sessions and see how my thoughts relate from session to session.
Hey avi I'd be interested in that. I can figure out how to get around in excel but by the time I've done the research whatever I'm working on isn't important anymore and I forget it before I need it again.
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 10:09 PM   #6036
PoppaTMan
veteran
 
PoppaTMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Cleaned up my spreadsheet so session entries of all games/stakes are on the same sheet. Added column filters along with new columns for game + stake. Couldn't figure out how to have final results + graph on the same page, as the filters would potentially hide the rows they were visible on. Minor inconvenience to have results + graph on a separate sheet, but overall it seems much cleaner.
PoppaTMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 10:24 PM   #6037
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 12,215
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yea poppa I would think you'd want three sheets. 1) Raw data dump (session logger w/columns we discussed. 2) Then a summary sheet (has like w/r, hours, sd, etc, by stake). 3) then a graphs tab.

Spike I will post some pics and a quick walk through of the spreadsheet in the next few weeks if I can get some free time to revamp mine.

Final thoughts on the app vs. Excel, it's very likely that I'm just so used to excel that I favor it. But I do like being able to see how the data is working + having a workable/save-able*/transferable file.

Like when using an app you enter the data and it just adds to the total pool of inputs and recalculates your current status. So as the end user you are only seeing the final output. I like being able to see my data line by line and know that I can analyze at whatever detail I need. Also like I have found discrepancies/mistakes before where my br was off by say $54 and I can see that I entered something incorrectly in my second to last session. With the app you are just off $54 and need to suck it up.

*Ive seen many instances where people lose their data with the app. I have my excel file saved on my comp & on a USB.
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 10:33 PM   #6038
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,732
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

To be fair, the app does have an export feature. It's still a pain in the ass, but it at least gets the data off the phone. A lot of it is filterable. I would like having more control over things though sometimes, so I may just start doing both.
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 10:54 PM   #6039
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 31,421
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Keep all your excel stuff in the cloud AINEC imo. Nothing thats like "dangerous" from a NSEC perspective (from what I can tell).

Dropbox is what I use for all cloud storage. Don't put anything private on it (like bank account numbers etc).
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2013, 11:05 PM   #6040
iraisetoomuch
banned
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 34,456
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I use google docs for everything.
Like ever.
And I feel great about it.

Likely hood that google drive fails me <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< likely hood that any other system fails me.
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 12:26 AM   #6041
fogodchao
veteran
 
fogodchao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: LA
Posts: 3,432
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltan View Post
Using excel properly should not be a problem if you have a high school diploma or better.
College diploma and no idea, but luckily anyone with a pre school diploma can use poker journal
fogodchao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 01:43 AM   #6042
Lapidator
LLSNL Frequent Flyer
 
Lapidator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lying dog-faced pony soldier
Posts: 13,763
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I've been using Excel for a while to track all of my personal finance stuff. I have budget pages, net worth pages, investment pages, ... ad infinitum.

My poker page has the following columns:

-- date
-- location (e.g. Foxwoods, Jim's Homegame, etc.)
-- game (e.g. 2/5NL, 1/2NL)
-- big blind (makes later calculations easier to have it listed explicitly)
-- Buy-in (e.g. am I buying in full for 100bb or short, etc. argument is in $)
-- re-buys (this is the total amount for the session)
-- Session Result
-- Profit/loss (i.e. result - (buy-in+rebuys))
-- P/L percent (e.g. buyin for $200 + $100 top up and cash out $425 = +41.67%)
-- Session time
-- $/hr
-- bb/hr
-- Session Swing in $/BI (i.e. how many buy-ins am I up or down in the current session)
-- Session Notes (e.g. "B+ Game. Really tough loss here. Table was not difficiult.")

The top 10 rows are a split pane that has aggregate calculations which are tallied on a yearly basis (i.e. each sheet in this spreadsheet is a year):

-- Total hours played
-- Average $/hr
-- Standard deviation $/hr
-- Average bb/hr
-- Standard deviation bb/hr
-- Average BI swing (+/-)
Lapidator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 02:04 AM   #6043
Lapidator
LLSNL Frequent Flyer
 
Lapidator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lying dog-faced pony soldier
Posts: 13,763
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

To the staking/making money discussion... If I may take Avaritia's comments a step further.

I encourage folks to look at things from the bigger picture. Assume you are crushing the game for 10bb/hr, but that you can only manage 20hrs weekly for like 45 weeks a year.

At 2/5NL, this is going to be $45k Nice little salary you have for a part time job. And even better, its probably going to be tax free...

However, how much money are you putting at risk?

20hrs weekly is like 3 sessions a week. And let's say that you're session win rate is something like 60%. This is something like (3*$500*45/.60) = $112,500 in buyins per year for an ROI of 40% (which is ridiculously huge).

My point is, you should find a way to take a large part of those buy-ins and develop some sort of passive, or largely passive investment that will earn you income or dividends while you are otherwise doing something else.

If you take 20% of your poker winnings, $9k per year, and buy some reliable dividend paying stock at like 3-8% (SDRL, SFL, RIG, DO, BMO, to name a few), you'll start to develop some income developing assets that you can count on in the future.

When you have a 3 month downswing, you'll be happy you put away 2bb/hr into SDRL, and 5 years from now you might have a big enough dividend to pay the rent from.
Lapidator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 10:41 AM   #6044
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 12,215
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Funny Lapi, I didn't go into detail of what my Excel looked like, just the high level, but yours is nearly identical. Ha

Only recently decided to start tracking location (part of the revamp) and regret not doing so sooner because I have a feeling one room is much more profitable than another for me.
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #6045
kwabert
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 79
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredd-bird View Post
I use Google Drive so I have the convenience of logging via phone at the end of a session or the computer once I get home.
Me Too. I created multiple tabs that link to each other so that once I enter my session log, everything is automatically generated, including plots and monthly totals.
kwabert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2013, 03:10 PM   #6046
genghiskan
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 175
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post

I encourage folks to look at things from the bigger picture. Assume you are crushing the game for 10bb/hr, but that you can only manage 20hrs weekly for like 45 weeks a year.

At 2/5NL, this is going to be $45k Nice little salary you have for a part time job. And even better, its probably going to be tax free...

However, how much money are you putting at risk?

20hrs weekly is like 3 sessions a week. And let's say that you're session win rate is something like 60%. This is something like (3*$500*45/.60) = $112,500 in buyins per year for an ROI of 40% (which is ridiculously huge).

My point is, you should find a way to take a large part of those buy-ins and develop some sort of passive, or largely passive investment that will earn you income or dividends while you are otherwise doing something else.

If you take 20% of your poker winnings, $9k per year, and buy some reliable dividend paying stock at like 3-8% (SDRL, SFL, RIG, DO, BMO, to name a few), you'll start to develop some income developing assets that you can count on in the future.

When you have a 3 month downswing, you'll be happy you put away 2bb/hr into SDRL, and 5 years from now you might have a big enough dividend to pay the rent from.

I know what you are trying to say (and I agree 100%) but the way you described it is incorrect. What you put at risk is your bankroll, not your total buy-ins.

Your total buy-ins have nothing to do with your win rate. In the above example, the total buy-ins are simply $67,500 (3*500*45). Whether I win every session or lose every session, the total buy-ins will remain the same. You do not put $67,500 at risk. What you risk is your bankroll.

Consequently, you should strongly consider investing part of your winnings (which you stated in the subsequent paragraph), not part of your total buy-ins. But this applies to every other profession, not just poker players.

I just wanted to clear that up in case anyone got the idea that they were risking far more than what they actually risked.
genghiskan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 11:57 PM   #6047
Lapidator
LLSNL Frequent Flyer
 
Lapidator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lying dog-faced pony soldier
Posts: 13,763
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Is a Financial Apocalypse Coming?

Lapidator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 08:57 AM   #6048
KyddDynamite
veteran
 
KyddDynamite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,546
I started with Excel and upgraded to the Google Docs version of excel. Very helpful if you're ever going to share your info with other people.

It does all the same things Poker Journal does as long as you know how to write some simple equations. I like it more because you can add or subtract any category you think is relevant. For example I keep my net session profit, session hours, tournament win/loss, net win/loss from selling action, etc.

It's all personal preference obviously, but how can you not enjoy something you customized for yourself?
KyddDynamite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 05:11 PM   #6049
iraisetoomuch
banned
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 34,456
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

For all of you that use excel, and you track the number of buy ins that you use, how do you deal with topping off?
Is it just simple a function of total buy in / initial buy in?

What if you buy in for 100BB for example, (table max 150BB) but then a fish comes along, with table max and you want to cover him, so you top off for 50BB. What do you use as your 'buy in' amount for that?

It's really all just semantics as in the end $'s and BB's is most of what matters, but I'm still curious how you deal with that.
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 05:14 PM   #6050
Lapidator
LLSNL Frequent Flyer
 
Lapidator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lying dog-faced pony soldier
Posts: 13,763
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have separate columns for the initial BI and rebuys (top-offs are considered rebuys).

I further have a column that computes the BIs won or lost in the session based on the buyin size for that session.
Lapidator is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive