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Old 12-06-2013, 04:35 PM   #6001
Turyia
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatty View Post
If all of that still doesn't convince you, consider this: I've pretty much never heard of staking deals that have gone great for both parties. 9 times out of 10, either the backer is getting screwed or the horse is getting screwed and there are hurt feelings and broken relationships in the end.
fwiw youre not the only person that has said this during this discussion, just the one im bothering to quote.

IDK where you all play or who you deal with, but staking selling action, swapping action etc is 100% standard among people that play full time. There are plenty of staking and backing arrnagements that work out well for both parties. Check the marketplace feedback thread here or PTP for great success stories. Not saying its guaranteed that everyone leaves happy, but saying that "staking never works" is absurd and even saying that "staking is more likely to not work than to work" is pushing it, IMO.

Spike's spot is kind of weird, and tbh there are probably better options available to him, but most of the reactions itt strike me as rather de trop.

this is a pretty standard spot.
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:43 PM   #6002
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Huge difference between selling action for mtts and direct staking for cash
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:09 PM   #6003
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Also most people looking for stakes probably don't have better options.

If you're a player that's crushing (10bb/hr or better), then it makes sense to get a loan as oppose to getting staked, which is more less for someone that is more likely to be a losing or BE player.

It's also another thing to get staked for big games, because obviously it's much harder to get a loan for $20k than $3k.

spike painted a picture, and that picture just doesn't jive.
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:33 PM   #6004
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I want to troll this thread so hard but I won't...but I will say the following make sense:

[ X ] Stakes for shot taking higher stakes
[ X ] Stakes or swaps in MTTs
[ X ] Stakes for broke players to rebuild
[ ] Stakes for a $100k/year earner and 15bb/hour crusher to play 1/2

Sorry it does not compute. But w/e if you want to play for effectively .5/1 stakes with someone elses cash...have at it I guess.



smh
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:40 PM   #6005
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What's funny is I have zero input on the ideology of staking.

What's tilting is how terrible people are at basic math / common sense.

I never said anything about the philosophy of staking ffs.

But anyone who looks at that deal and says its fair needs some basic education in loans/interest/principle repayment. Good lord.
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:53 PM   #6006
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Staking for higher games happens a lot more than you might think. Not sure of success ratio but it can work out for both parties IME. Staking for 1/2 sounds pretty ridiculous and pointless but hey, if both parties want to, who am I to say don't do it.
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Old 12-06-2013, 06:15 PM   #6007
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Also the big thing with me is if I'm selling action I'm doing it at a mark up
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:08 AM   #6008
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

People with "healthy six-figure incomes" don't need to play 1/2 for a side income, certainly don't need a bankroll to play live 1/2 nlhe, and laugh out loud don't need a stake in such a situation. It's beyond ridiculous. Withdraw $200 from the ATM and keep your winnings. Set a stop/loss if you're such a huge degen that you absolutely need to.

Really, just play 2/5, and you don't need a bankroll for that either. I don't believe either story but if they're somehow possibly true it's criminal not to.
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:32 AM   #6009
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Cool story bro.
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Old 12-07-2013, 02:01 AM   #6010
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah.

I'm not going to harp on it because others have pointed out how ridiculous it is but if the story is somehow true it's just lighting money on fire. A big downswing is going to be maybe a week's pay and likely spread out over several months as a part time player. Part time players need budgets not bankrolls. Part time players who make a buy in every few hours doing the day job thing deciding to cut their earnings in half for no reason just doesn't make sense. The only way it possibly can is if the person is a degenerate but in that case like I said you just need a stop/loss not a bankroll. The function of a bankroll just doesn't apply in the alleged cases.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:13 AM   #6011
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Raidion View Post
/derail

I just hit the bottom of a 10 BI downswing in about 70 hours of live play. While I am rolled for the game and not concerned about the money in the slightest, basically this has made me a breakeven player over the last 250 hours. I and my other poker friends (including a live 5/10 pro) believe I'm a winning player (because of a winning past 700 hour sample and general HH reviews.) Of that winning 700 hour sample, 500 was at 1/2 and 180 was at 2/5, and now because of recent events, I'm exactly a breakeven player at 2/5.

Are 10 BI downswings common for a winning player? Does a downswing hourly of -$71 (when a winning rate is ~$25) mean anything special?

I'm basically trying to figure out if 2/5 is too tough for me for some reason or if I'm just experiencing a side of variance I haven't before. Just getting kinda sick of this losing thing (or breakeven thing) and want it to stop even if it means I have to move down. Again, money isn't an issue, I'm rolled for the game and life roll is entirely separate and secure.

Any tips or sympathy? Feel free to point me to BBV if this isn't specific enough. Jus
I'm late to the party here but have some insight. I play 2/5nl and beat it for +10bb hr I recently went thru an 80hr -8k downswing. Keeping ur confidence is crucial. I play a pretty aggressive style so questioning ur play begins to happen pretty quickly. Note ur hands and review later, if ur rolled properly u can play thru it. Any update on how it's going? Any questions I'll try to help
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #6012
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Have to agree with avaritia. Having 60% action at 1/2 is ludicrous. Getting a job is the +EV play for an underrolled 1/2 player. A lot of people told me this when I was playing 1/2 (which I ignored obv), and it cost me 800 hours of minimal improvement to grind through that god damn stake. Maybe you could get coached and staked to jump up to 2/5 like coasterbrad if that's the way you want to do it. His rapid improvement was extraordinary.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:46 PM   #6013
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Someone approached me about staking (I am beating 2/5 for 15++bb/hr and my 1/2 is even higher). This was my proposal:

1/2: he absorbed 100% of risk. No makeup ever if I call it off. In return he gets 1% of winning. I can call it off at any time.

2/5: same as 1/2, but I will give him 2%

10/25+: Now we can start having a real convo.

FWIW, he was considering the 2/5 offer. But I shot him down. I'd rather have that 2% in my pocket.

If you are what u say you are, then those are the minimal terms you should accept. Otherwise you are either an idiot or a liar.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:23 PM   #6014
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Your game is uncapped.

Not 100bb 1/2 where you buy in $200...
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:47 PM   #6015
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

And yes I was of course being tongue-in-cheek but that convo did happen. 1/2 and 2/5 are low risk for my BR/Life roll and me seeking at stake at those levels is beyond moronic.

Something isn't adding up with the story.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:36 PM   #6016
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Gonna go back to using my phone to log sessions either this weekend or in 2014.

What's the most simplistic app to use on an iPhone 4s? Consider me less than tech savvy.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:09 PM   #6017
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Poker Income is $5-10 depending on how much you download. It seems pretty easy to use for me.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:21 PM   #6018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Poker Income is $5-10 depending on how much you download. It seems pretty easy to use for me.
+1
Poker income is easy to use and haven't had any problems with it.
Other popular one is poker journal.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:41 PM   #6019
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Poker Income is $5-10 depending on how much you download. It seems pretty easy to use for me.
poker income is free?
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:45 PM   #6020
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

$5 for the basic download. Add ons are a little extra. well worth it IMO.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:53 PM   #6021
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

there's definitely a free version because i have it.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:59 PM   #6022
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not sure on that. Maybe a chopped down version. $5 is nothing for what i got though. Way more than I even use really.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:59 PM   #6023
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have been using a free version of Poker Income as well.

Maybe it has a limit on the amount of sessions it can record? I assume so since some are paying for it.

Having said that, as user friendly as it is, I would probably pay for the expanded version. It keeps track of my sessions well, creates nice simple graphs, and as mentioned is very easy to use.
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:09 AM   #6024
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I paid $12.99 I think for Poker Journal. Works great. No complaints.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:55 AM   #6025
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personally I prefer just recording data, and making sure I keep my excel spreadsheets up to date. Besides giraffes look so much better on a bigger screen
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