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Old 12-05-2013, 12:09 PM   #5976
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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x2
x3

Should we start the next Kydd-Dhgc type thread now?

GI'mnotreadingitunlessthere'sheadrubbingG
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:30 PM   #5977
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Anyone in their right mind making $25/hr at 1/2 over a reasonable sample would not want a stake, especially making 6figs a year. Completely ridiculous
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:33 PM   #5978
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Regarding staking: this is another area that I likely won't be able to sway someone who already has his or her mind made up, but I'll give it a shot - if nothing else, maybe it'll help sway the undecided lurkers. Staking seems extremely shady and unnecessary to me. The idea of staking is based on a flawed premise: a poker player who doesn't have enough money NOR enough patience to earn the money wants to convince someone else to let them play with their money. Good, successful poker players have at least two things in common: they are very good at making money at poker and have good patience - poker is a long run game, not a short term game. So, if a player is good at beating the games and making money, why would a good, successful poker player NEED money? That very admission alone wipes out any other possible justification that he or she is a good player. Good players don't NEED money. Good players MAKE money at the poker table.

If you are indeed a good poker player and making money, the ONLY possible justification for wanting to be staked is that you lack the patience and/or bankroll management to make the money to move up on your own. Lacking patience and/or bankroll management is NOT a good quality and you are trying to bypass a very good natural system in place in poker - moving up the stakes. If you're beating $1/$2, there is no guarantee that you will beat $5/$10, but there is a good intermediate step to test the waters while exercising good bankroll management: $2/$5. If you WILL be a winner at $5/$10, then you should basically crush $2/$5 and have enough money for $5/$10 in no time. If you CAN'T beat $2/$5, then you certainly can't beat $5/$10 and it's MUCH better to figure that out at $2/$5 with your OWN money rather than at $5/$10 with someone else's money.

If all of that still doesn't convince you, consider this: I've pretty much never heard of staking deals that have gone great for both parties. 9 times out of 10, either the backer is getting screwed or the horse is getting screwed and there are hurt feelings and broken relationships in the end. It's very difficult for it to work out well for both because either (1) the horse is not prepared to win at those stakes and the backer is screwed or (2) the horse is winning but the distribution is not equitable to the horse or the backer. Just don't complicate things: (1) save your own money at a job to play at the lowest stakes you can afford and then (2) win $ at the table and move up with THAT money. It's just that simple. You're not practicing good bankroll management or patience if you can't do #1 and you aren't a good poker player if you can't do #2.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:46 PM   #5979
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Come on...seriously, I expect some very basic common sense from you.

$3000 cash advance from your credit card even at 20% interest = $600 divided by 12 months, or $50 a month in interest.

That's as much as you would give to your "partner" if you net $125 in winning, and $50 is the very most you'll be giving up.

I am done with this subject because this must be a joke.
This is what I was saying but too lazy to type...although the example is way off bc of compounding interest, but w/e.

It has nothing to do with "life events or "really I make this" or whatever.

You asked if that was financially the best solution and it clearly is not and as RP has shown is actually terrible financially speaking.

God are people really this ignorant when it comes to basic finance?

This reminds me of friends/family constantly asking me for stock picks. My first question is how much credit card debt? "Meh, about $5k, but why does that matter? Tell me a stock to buy!"

It is quite easy to compare several available financial options and your staking deal is not optimal.

Put another way, your staking deal makes loan sharks look like the Salvation Army.

Again it has nothing to do with my actual opinion on stakes. It is just a financial perspective on the deal being offered.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #5980
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The only staking that makes sense is selling action in higher stakes games and mtts at a markup.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #5981
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
This is what I was saying but too lazy to type...although the example is way off bc of compounding interest, but w/e.
FWIW, I was focusing on the short term...

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Put another way, your staking deal makes loan sharks look like the Salvation Army.
And that's because you're a self proclaimed (nothing wrong with that btw) 10bb/hr winner.

So you're pretty much guaranteed to win, and therefore guaranteed to give up 40% interest, rake, split, and whatever else you want to call it, and worst of all, it is uncapped.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:18 PM   #5982
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

wow thread is AIDS

6 figure job needs stake for 1/2 wtf?
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:38 PM   #5983
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You're either

A. lying about your win rate
B. lying about your salary
C. ****ing ******ed
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:56 PM   #5984
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You're either

A. lying about your win rate
B. lying about your salary
C. ****ing ******ed
Or

D all of the above
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:39 PM   #5985
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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This reminds me of friends/family constantly asking me for stock picks. My first question is how much credit card debt? "Meh, about $5k, but why does that matter? Tell me a stock to buy!"
I'd like to buy stock in whichever company provides these people's credit cards
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:52 PM   #5986
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You're either

A. lying about your win rate
B. lying about your salary
C. ****ing ******ed
You forgot:

D. a raging heroin addict
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:45 PM   #5987
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

sigh: guys, just because I have a good job doesn't mean I don't have bills to pay. I choose not to mix my poker with my life money. The stake is just kind of a fun thing for my friend and I to do. It has nothing to do with BRM or patience. I could play with my own money, but I choose not to at the moment because I would rather have my BR totally separate from everything else which I will be able to do soon anyway. All I wanted to know was if these terms are close to standard. The level of judgment going on here from positions of total ignorance is astounding. I didn't ask you to critique my life. I asked you to critique the terms of the stake. Apparently, this is too much for you.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:55 PM   #5988
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

OMG some of these poasts make ILCD look like he actually had a brain.

Spikerpaw - ya steak deal looks ossum...congrats on winning at life...hope you and yer bud have fun with the deal

/spiker discussion PLZ
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:44 PM   #5989
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
sigh: guys, just because I have a good job doesn't mean I don't have bills to pay. I choose not to mix my poker with my life money. The stake is just kind of a fun thing for my friend and I to do. It has nothing to do with BRM or patience. I could play with my own money, but I choose not to at the moment because I would rather have my BR totally separate from everything else which I will be able to do soon anyway. All I wanted to know was if these terms are close to standard. The level of judgment going on here from positions of total ignorance is astounding. I didn't ask you to critique my life. I asked you to critique the terms of the stake. Apparently, this is too much for you.
if you are a proven winning player than i would say the 60/40 is a reasonable rate and payed every 50 hours is fine as well, i would leave the hours up to the staker however... looks like a normal stake as long as your winrate is proven true over 300+ hours and not some 5 hour heater
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:46 PM   #5990
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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OMG some of these poasts make ILCD look like he actually had a brain.
Im still convinced ILCD is smarter than all of us and just a massive level/gimmick
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:37 PM   #5991
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Spike, 60/40 is standard, but some people who make good money for their backers and are trustworthy have a 70/30 or even a 80/20 deal. If the stake is successful for a few weeks I would suggest trying to make it at least 70/30 for you.

When I was staking a friend for 2/5 who I knew could crush the game we had a deal based on the amount of hours he put in for the week. If he put in 30+ it was 80/20, 20-30 70/30, and less than 20 60/40, or something like that. Maybe you and your backer can talk about doing something similar.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:11 AM   #5992
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

lol 80/20. Downswings happen even when people play great.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:20 AM   #5993
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you're playing 1/2, tell your buddy that you want a 4k loan instead of a staking deal.

Pay him 3% interest per month (which is redic for a yearly rate, along the lines of 36% or higher depending on what sort of math you like..) which equates to $120 per month. If you are playing 30 hours a month, which seems a bit small but whatever I'm a degenerate, then you are giving up on average $4/hour that you pla. Which is equal to 2BB/hour. This is clearly much better than the 60/40 deal. It still a GREAT investment for him. (Where the hell else can you get 36% ROI.)

You could even got a bit lower.
Offer him like 2% annually. Just make sure you explain why it's a good deal. What kind of annual return he is really netting.

If you have more questions about this, PM me and I can explain it in more detail.

Spoiler:
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:21 AM   #5994
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Money and friends make for an ill partnership.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:30 AM   #5995
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So your plan is to have only 20 buy ins of 100bb and take out a loan to pay for this, when this is a very swing game and it's more than possible that the person can lose during this period? This is a terrible idea. The reason why the staker is getting what you call such a great deal is that he's the one putting up the money and who will lose it if it goes wrong.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:42 AM   #5996
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I am on a live NLH 90 hour breakeven stretch that feels like an eternity. Is this a brag, beat or variance?
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:15 AM   #5997
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It's pathetic, I've been on a 400 hr break even streak
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:44 AM   #5998
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^what 11t said. I apparently just got off a 60hr be streak and didn't even notice it. And if I have a bad session next time, it'll be 70 hours.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:19 PM   #5999
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Spikeraw22, start out at 50/50 and the more money you win, have the deal go more in your favor. Every 200bb you win go 55/45 etc or every 300bb go 60/40.

If you are going to stay on a fixed number than 60/40 sounds fine.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:45 PM   #6000
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Spikeraw22, start out at 50/50 and the more money you win, have the deal go more in your favor. Every 200bb you win go 55/45 etc or every 300bb go 60/40.

If you are going to stay on a fixed number than 60/40 sounds fine.
Pretty much this.

And spike, ignore everyone else. I'm in the same boat you are. I have an awesome job with a healthy 6-figure salary, and I play 1/2 for side income but keep it 100% separate from my normal income/expenses. I have a very good relationship with my backer. Our deal started at 50/50 and increases gradually in my favor 1% as I win, up to a max of 70/30. The main benefit for me is that I don't have to come up with a BR from personal funds, or take out a loan. It also gives me the ability to move up in stakes much sooner than I would normally have done, and I have the security of a backer if I spot a juicy game at higher stakes and want to take a shot at it. I can leave the stake at any time. The terms work out well for me, and I very much enjoy having a backer.
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