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Old 11-17-2013, 05:06 PM   #5901
Avaritia
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post

I take notes on a folded sheet of paper.

I usually would write them down at the table in my lap in between hands
I was in the bay area and able to snap a quick pic of dgi the other day.

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Old 11-17-2013, 05:22 PM   #5902
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I was going to cite 11t that 10BI DW is standard, but he really sucks.
fyp
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:56 PM   #5903
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
The 2/5 table was just dreadful today so I played 1/2 and did well. Seems I have done well at 1/2 so decided to check my logs. 80/hr over 18 hours since September, with only one non-trivial loss in 20 "sessions" (most are <1hr as I wait for a 2/5 seat). obviously not sustainable but it made me wonder just how much of an effect game selection has. There is no game selection in the 2/5 here (usually one table, if there's two it's a must move) whereas there are usually at least 4 1/2 tables. I rarely see the mythical drunken whale donating money but I pick the table with the most money on it and that's almost always the right choice.

Made me curious what my true 1/2 hourly looks like too (I do have past data but I don't think it's relevant as I'm improving) I wonder if I should be choosing to play 1/2 more than I do, I kind of assumed it was just a rake trap but 20/hr is probably doable. Rake is 10% to $5+1 here fwiw.
Having played with roughly the same player pool as you before, I went through this too once. You probably should be playing 1/2 more but not exclusively. Since 2/5 plays bigger the question is, "is this 1/2 game twice as good as the 2/5 game?" Sometimes it is!

I had to go through a massive downswing before I figured this out, so you're ahead of the game if that's not what's causing you to think about this.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:19 PM   #5904
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

i was curb stomped at 2/5 last night... a little sobering.

table selection and pure ass luck is pretty damn important.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:35 AM   #5905
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Since most of the live players (including myself) that post in here play 1-2 thru 5-10, I'll post my updated results at said stakes. I have a droid and these stats are pulled off poker manager

This year I have 1443 hours logged. I have gone thru two extended break even streaks. One streak was 300 hours. One was 450 Hours. Half my time playing is break even? =)

The games I play in have an average stack of 800-1500 most of the time. Basically 2-5. The rake I pay is absurdly high and embarrassing. I calculated that I pay about 25-30 an hour in rake, about double was a 2/5 at a casino is (I think most are time raked at like 6 bucks every 30 minutes) I would guess that 20% of the time is spent playing PLO high only while the remaining 80% is NLH.

I win 64% of my sessions. My observed hourly is $33.28. My sample is relatively large and my hourly rarely ventures outside the 30-40 dollar an hour range. (except during big drawdowns) My biggest drawdown was like 15kish or so. My next biggest was like 13kish.

My sample consists of poker in casinos, cruise ships, dog tracks, and underground local games. The Cruise ships have by far the worst players....like ever...seriously, go on a cruise...Carnival. My last cruise I made 7k in 55 hours in a 1-2 game with a 200 dollar capped buy in. The casinos are hit or miss and very table dependent...some tables great, some suck....recognize it quickly and don't waste time; ask for table change if bad table.

Home games play shallower and are a bit more "gambly" than casino games. The players are normally all bad, but they have to be because the rake will murder you. Average session length is about 6 hours.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:54 AM   #5906
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
My advice is to start a poker journal. Record key hands and then review them. Trust me, players always think they can "remember" key hands, but you can't.

I take notes on a folded sheet of paper. I have a poker short hand that I developed for myself and I can record an entire hand and important details all in 2 lines in around 40 - 60 characters. Meaning that if this paragraph were my poker short hand, i'd have recorded about 6 complete hands.

I would record all my key hands (wins and losses) and I usually would write them down at the table in my lap in between hands. Only takes a minute...

Then later at home you analyze them and you will start to see patterns. Trust me.

Without properly analyzing your sessions, you really can't determine what you are doing wrong. And you can't properly analyze a session unless you record the session in question.
Can we see one of these shorthands? We'll try to decipher at first, then you could explain?

Sometimes I'd like to write down a hand at the table, but dont want anyone knowing Im doing that.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:26 AM   #5907
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Can we see one of these shorthands? We'll try to decipher at first, then you could explain?

Sometimes I'd like to write down a hand at the table, but dont want anyone knowing Im doing that.
+1

I've tried putting pen to paper, using a notes app...I have a hard time remembering cards/actions/positions as well but I think I just need to study all of those things more during the hand...so that's prob a big leak as it is. I guess during my final decision I should be more conscious of it all...drip drip drip
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:27 PM   #5908
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Dream View Post
Can we see one of these shorthands? We'll try to decipher at first, then you could explain?

Sometimes I'd like to write down a hand at the table, but dont want anyone knowing Im doing that.
Read DGI's PG&C thread entitled (in part) "Not Afraid of the Nosebleeds", he actually lays out his whole shorthand in there kinda recently IIRC.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:42 PM   #5909
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Originally Posted by Raidion View Post
Sounds about right, it's not the worst beat ever, but I'm really trying to reconcile losing this much for this long to the concept of me being a decent reg at the games I play. I'm still fairly new to poker <1k hours live, and don't have a good feel for what the swings are.
I lost $3k in week ago at 2/5 over 3 sessions buying in for 400$ a time. When I look back at it most all that money was lost in 6 hands....

flopped set over set, flopped top two to villains flush draw which came on river, flopped straight to villains flopped flush, flopped nut straight flush draw to 2 villains all in's and didn't get there, and one flopped flush over flush. sometimes you just get in bad spots. plow through it. people can't have monsters forever.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:05 PM   #5910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipperyAces View Post
I lost $3k in week ago at 2/5 over 3 sessions buying in for 400$ a time. When I look back at it most all that money was lost in 6 hands....

flopped set over set, flopped top two to villains flush draw which came on river, flopped straight to villains flopped flush, flopped nut straight flush draw to 2 villains all in's and didn't get there, and one flopped flush over flush. sometimes you just get in bad spots. plow through it. people can't have monsters forever.
Ive been down as high as $5k playing mostly $2/5 nlhe, partly from a little bit of spewy tilt but mostly cooler spots like above. On the flip side ive been running super godlike for the last 4months with zero losing weeks, playing about 30 hrs/week. That being said, observed and researched, I think 25 buy-ins is certainly sufficient to play with. Bust that, and you've got big leaks.

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Last edited by NitroJake; 11-27-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:53 PM   #5911
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

this monday afternoon while waiting for 2/5 i decided to play on the 1/2 where i bought in for 100$. was moved to 2/5 at exactly 30 minutes on table when I had $169. topped up $31 and sat down at 2/5 with 200$. after exactly 50 minutes on the 2/5 table cashed out for $1040. poker is swingy. it starts getting serious after you have lost $10k
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:56 PM   #5912
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Why would you do that?
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Old 11-27-2013, 02:58 PM   #5913
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

do what?
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:01 PM   #5914
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Why would you buy in 50bb to 1/2 then 40bb to 2/5, and then cash out after less than an hour when your image is obviously good and you're sitting on a good stack size to maximize even more profit.

Essentially you hit and run from $131 to $1040 in 90 minutes, why?

Have you stopped and considered the fact that your loss of 3k is you not ready to play 2/5?
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:07 PM   #5915
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Why would you buy in 50bb to 1/2 then 40bb to 2/5, and then cash out after less than an hour when your image is obviously good and you're sitting on a good stack size to maximize even more profit.

Essentially you hit and run from $131 to $1040 in 90 minutes, why?

Have you stopped and considered the fact that your loss of 3k is you not ready to play 2/5?
Maybe he just got lucky and got a hot deck. I agree though if you're playing well and the table is soft, I'd stick with it for a few hours at least.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:23 PM   #5916
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i mean if that is all there was to it.... maybe. but like everything on here you are doing a lot of projecting on me.

i buy in for 50bb at 1/2 because i hate playing that game. all I play is 2/5 so i am pretty good at calling in about 50 mins before i get to the casino so i rarely play it. this time i showed up and was 4 down on the list with only 1 table of 2/5 so i decided to waste time that way. whatever image i had there isnt carrying to the 2/5 table.

if i don't have a player at the table who i recognize (and in turn their leaks) i like to buy in at the min for one rotation (or less if i see something crazy going on) to feel out the table. this time in particular i noticed exactly one player at the table who i happen to consider one of the best regs and the rest of the table looked very reggy (middle aged men in hoodies with those shark poker sunglasses ect) with the exception to an old guy sitting on my immediate left and an asian dude to his left.

anyway, i sit down, the second hand i see, a clear reg gets a monster bad beat where he flops a straight and the other player rivers a full house. the immediate next hand he puts in a decent raise UTG and I 3 bet with KJs get two callers and then jam at 452 flop and get called by a 43s hand which i suck out on the river when a K hits... so given the small buy in and the way i almost shipped it to 34s I think at least half the table thinks im a fish.

the two other double ups against both the asian and old man are monster river calls on scary boards with top pair against scary boards... which could be seen as soul reads or calling station kind of behavior so they arent doing much for my image.

I then bet QQ with position preflop and C-bet on a 667 flop, get called. shut down turn. and call river and guy flips over pocket 77 for about -130$.

at this point the two weakest players at the table have given up and gone home... and two other players have gotten up (the reg who steamed after i paired the river). me against the remaining players short handed isnt that much advantage and being im crushing my hourly i decide to go home.

i have a lot of sessions like this... its also probably why i have a ridiculous hourly rate for 2/5... and did i mention the 131$ to 1040$ was in a 100$ spread game. its pretty damn hot.

long story short. i work a 50 hour a day week and play 22 hours a week on the 2/5 game.

im one of the most consistent players in the poker room and with a strong win rate... i guess im not ready for 2/5... but thanks for the input.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:51 PM   #5917
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think I would very much like to play in your poker room.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:08 PM   #5918
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its good... but jacksonville was far better
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:35 AM   #5919
August West
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I've started keeping track of my live play. So far I've only been playing $1/2 NLHE.

In approximately 50 hours I am up $1648. That comes to $32.96/hour.

What conclusions if any can I draw from this?

Let me know what other relevant information I can post if it would be any help.
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:46 AM   #5920
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by August West View Post
I've started keeping track of my live play. So far I've only been playing $1/2 NLHE.

In approximately 50 hours I am up $1648. That comes to $32.96/hour.

What conclusions if any can I draw from this?

Let me know what other relevant information I can post if it would be any help.
you definitely ran good

i dont think you can draw too many conclusions about your true win-rate. theres definitely huge whales at my 1/3 game who go on 1 month heaters where they win more than 15bb/hr
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:47 AM   #5921
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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you definitely ran good

i dont think you can draw too many conclusions about your true win-rate. theres definitely huge whales at my 1/3 game who go on 1 month heaters where they win more than 15bb/hr
did you just call me a whale?
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:47 AM   #5922
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yes

you and joe are whales who go on heaters
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:49 AM   #5923
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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yes

you and joe are whales who go on heaters
joe is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.

he is on a heater, though.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:11 AM   #5924
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipperyAces View Post
this monday afternoon while waiting for 2/5 i decided to play on the 1/2 where i bought in for 100$. was moved to 2/5 at exactly 30 minutes on table when I had $169. topped up $31 and sat down at 2/5 with 200$. after exactly 50 minutes on the 2/5 table cashed out for $1040. poker is swingy. it starts getting serious after you have lost $10k
lolled, so you min bought in for 2/5 and then ratholed?

not sure about your logic, you hate 1/2 so you buy in for 50bb but have a huge edge at 2/5 thus you buyin for 40bb?

hahaa
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:38 AM   #5925
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Played more 2/5 last month (2/5 days bolded red), pretty good start. Could have ran a little better with all-in EV but I'm not complaining. Also finally downloaded pokerjournal to keep track of hours, so here's some stats from first 100 hours:



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