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Old 10-17-2013, 11:46 AM   #5776
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Neutrogena View Post
Still doesn't make sense.

Would I play 4/8 limit even though it is low variance easy money? No.

Your other reasoning still just sounds like some weird excuse. Why do you even post here is my question when you're literally crushing it as hard as it is humanly possible.
It makes perfect sense, imo. The only deciding factor in crushing poker is to play at tables where there are a lot of poor players. In rooms that offer both 1/2 NL and 2/5 NL, it may well be the case that the vast majority of the poor players stay at the 1/2 NL table, whereas the 2/5 NL table attracts the better players, thus sometimes making 1/2 > 2/5 in terms of winrate in spite of the stake difference.

The 2/5 NL game in my room has finally resurfaced, and a table has gotten going the last two times I've been sitting in my 1/3 NL game. Both times I surveyed the 2/5 NL table and easily decided that my 1/3 NL table was far more profitable than the 2/5 NL table (which was infested with the best players in the room + just a gambooley terrible mark or two).

And comparing it to playing in a 4/8 Limit game (which actually has a lot higher variance, at least in terms of putting in winning sessions vs losing sessions) simply doesn't equate well. About the maximum you can make in a raked 4/8 Limit game is probably somewhere around 1BB ($8) / hr, which is nowhere close to what you can easily make in a typical 1/2 NL game.

My guess is rising in poker stakes is very similar to how an employee is promoted in ranks until the point where they eventually land in a position that outclasses their skills and they become incompetent. Same goes for poker stakes, and we each have to find that sweet spot where we're playing at a table where our overall skill level to our opponents + the stakes maximizes our overall winrate. For a lot of us, that might mean slumming it at the lowest stakes NL table in the room.

Gtableselection,ftwG
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:00 PM   #5777
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You seem to have completely missed the part that he plays in Vegas.

And thanks for pointing that money is a deciding factor why one wouldn't play 4/8, because that's also a point I was making.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:24 PM   #5778
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Neutrogena View Post
You seem to have completely missed the part that he plays in Vegas.

And thanks for pointing that money is a deciding factor why one wouldn't play 4/8, because that's also a point I was making.
I'll admit, I have zero idea how games / stakes / etc. play in Vegas.

So we're dumping on him because he's only making a paltry $30+ / hour? For something he does for fun?

Gmostpeoplepay$30/hrforthingstheydoforfunG
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #5779
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Gmostpeoplepay$30/hrforthingstheydoforfunG
lucky dog... $30/hr is such a good price for a hooker
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:40 PM   #5780
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Neutrogena View Post
You seem to have completely missed the part that he plays in Vegas.
Yeah, but the strip is 20 minutes away and Red Rock is 8 minutes away.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:50 PM   #5781
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I'll admit, I have zero idea how games / stakes / etc. play in Vegas.

So we're dumping on him because he's only making a paltry $30+ / hour? For something he does for fun?

Gmostpeoplepay$30/hrforthingstheydoforfunG
More of a curiosity than anything else.

He could very well be the only person in the history of poker that crushes at the lowest stake while a higher stake is readily available nearby.

Kind of like dgiharris just wanting to play 1/2 instead of moving up.

If he plays for fun and has a fulltime job, then it makes even less sense why he wants to remain a 1/2 player, unless of course...he has some issues of wanting to be the best in a place that no one would challenge him for such title.

Just doesn't make much sense, so I am asking why.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:52 PM   #5782
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Neutrogena View Post
Just doesn't make much sense, so I am asking why.
This conversation happens every time wj94 posts his results.

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Old 10-17-2013, 12:54 PM   #5783
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This conversation happens every time wj94 posts his results.

^This!
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:54 PM   #5784
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

No kidding...

The guy obviously just wants to hear people tell him how great he is.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:30 PM   #5785
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The gall, to post winrates in the winrates thread.

Gwft?G
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:06 PM   #5786
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Whew! GG gettin aggro!

Next thing we know GG is 5! bluffing the young guns
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:26 PM   #5787
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Next thing we know GG is 5! bluffing the young guns
Ava's subtle brag that he plays in games where chipstacks are big enough to 5bet.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:31 PM   #5788
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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Ava's subtle brag that he plays in games where chipstacks are big enough to 5bet.
GsuperdeepmicrostakesliveG?
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:29 PM   #5789
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Finally hit my goal of $50k in one year. Started keeping track of every-day results on 11/16/12 and made it to $50k as of 10/7/13, almost all of it at 1/2. Some stats and graph:

Total sessions - 256
Total profit - $50,368
Biggest win - $2,156 ($1/2)
Biggest loss - $1,855 (combo of $1/3 and 5/10)
Longest win streak - 25
Longest losing streak - 4
Total winning sessions - 190
Total losing sessions - 66
Win percentage - 74.2%
Average win - $196.75
1 session of 5/10, 21 sessions of 2/5, 234 sessions of 1/2

Total profit:

Awesome job, thanks for the graph.

You seemed to hit a ~2 month break even stretch from 6/16 to 8/16.

How did you react to this mentally? How much doubt/frustration crept in?
Did you feel this was variance or playbad?
Did you make any changes to your game when that stretch hit?
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:17 AM   #5790
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by crsseyed View Post
Awesome job, thanks for the graph.

You seemed to hit a ~2 month break even stretch from 6/16 to 8/16.

How did you react to this mentally? How much doubt/frustration crept in?
Did you feel this was variance or playbad?
Did you make any changes to your game when that stretch hit?
I try to look at things from month-to-month and in each of those months I won about $2k. That stretch from 6/16 to 8/16 is more break-even because of a few bad days at deep stack 1/3, a few at 2/5, and one at 5/10. Seemed like a lot of bad beats/variance (get in nut flush vs set at 5/10, V rivers a boat, etc), but also does make you question your play. I had a lot of days off those few months because I was dealing with buying a house, renovations, and a family funeral which I had to go out of town for twice. Just have to keep with it and play your game, it all works out in the end if you're good.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:11 PM   #5791
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have been keeping track of my Bovada SNG results manually on a spreadsheet for a while (3-4k games, 10-13% ROI for $5 & $10), but I recently got the AcePokerSolutions converter and the most recent 700 games I've been importing into PokerTracker. I knew that weekends would be better than weekdays, but the extent so far is shocking...I was expecting about 7-8% weekdays 15-20% weekends, but it's actually 2.5% weekdays (500 games) and 27% weekends (200 games)...somewhat of a small sample so far...I am trying to figure out if others have the same results, and if so, I'm not even sure I'm going to bother to get a larger sample, it appears I'm nearly wasting my time on weekdays!! What do you all think?

- Tony
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:49 PM   #5792
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I'm trying to compare win rates with other live short stacker's, but I'm having trouble finding any since 2+2ers seem to generally despise them and refuse to play the SS. Anyone care to share?

Also:
- yes, I know short stacks are cowards.
-yes, I know I could win more playing deep.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:29 AM   #5793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Lido View Post
I'm trying to compare win rates with other live short stacker's, but I'm having trouble finding any since 2+2ers seem to generally despise them and refuse to play the SS. Anyone care to share?

Also:
- yes, I know short stacks are cowards.
-yes, I know I could win more playing deep.
I used to play 50bb at Oaks because that was the max bi at the time. I've also played 50bb at Lucky Chances for a couple months a yr ago. I won about $12-14/hr
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:41 AM   #5794
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Makes more sense if you put either dollar or BB in the same comparison.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:13 AM   #5795
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1/1/2 blinds, about 500 hrs
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:00 AM   #5796
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I think 1/10 of BI/hr is actually a pretty good bottom.

So for example, if you buy in 40bb, top of your range is probably 4bb/hr.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:12 PM   #5797
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by crackleback View Post
As far as going pro. Forget it. Stay in college get a good job and play poker as an enjoyable and profitable hobby. That way it stays a game, not a job, and actually will remain fun. Don't become one of the many unhappy pro's who now hate the game which has become a miserable drudgery as a job. As a job, where you must win just to pay your bills which constantly eat away at your bankroll, poker sucks. No healthcare for you or your family, no guarantees, nothing. It's a hard and stressful way to try to survive and it gets harder every year.
Obamacare, breh.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:02 AM   #5798
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Lido View Post
I'm trying to compare win rates with other live short stacker's, but I'm having trouble finding any since 2+2ers seem to generally despise them and refuse to play the SS. Anyone care to share?

Also:
- yes, I know short stacks are cowards.
-yes, I know I could win more playing deep.
bro, short stacks are cowards
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:29 AM   #5799
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Why do you say that? Always seemed to me that deliberately playing a short stack strategy was simply a different view on playing poker. Not cowardice at all, simply another way to play the game. Much like playing tight is a different way from playing loose.

I've always found it interesting that those who despise short stack play do so, in part, because they find it hard to play against. It must, it seems to me, therefore have some legitimacy as a legitimate strategy.

Lee
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:53 AM   #5800
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Lovesantiques View Post
Why do you say that? Always seemed to me that deliberately playing a short stack strategy was simply a different view on playing poker. Not cowardice at all, simply another way to play the game. Much like playing tight is a different way from playing loose.

I've always found it interesting that those who despise short stack play do so, in part, because they find it hard to play against. It must, it seems to me, therefore have some legitimacy as a legitimate strategy.

Lee
To me, the "good short stacker" is like a unicorn, dragon, or leprechaun... some mythical creature of legend in which someone always claims to have seen one but can never provide proof.

I play 5 days a week in 3 different casinos, and there are no regular short stackers in any of my games that do well. Obviously I don't have any hard stats and can only give anecdotal observation, but I just don't see any short stackers that routinely buy in short and leave 2, 3, 4, BI's up.

but I see the opposite daily. I see people buy into my games for the minimum and they bust out a very high percentage of the time within a hour. They reload several times and I can't help but wonder why they just didn't take those 3-4 reloads and buy in full...

The problem with short stacking is simple. YOU NEED TO GET STRONG VALUE HANDS.

And therein lies the rub. If you buy-in full, you have more ways to win. You can bluff, semi-bluff, float, have proper odds to set mine and draw and then when you hit you can get PAID OFF.

Conversely, short stackers have fewer ways to win: they need hands that hold up at showdown and/or are strong enough to shove all-in... Not to mention when they finally do get a hand their hands are face up as JJ+, AK and good luck getting action all the time...

So sorry, I just don't have much love for short stack play. And I've tried it several times when my roll was on life support. My results and winrate when I buy in short are horrible compared to when I buy-in full.
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