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Old 03-10-2011, 08:38 PM   #551
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Re: Win rates

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3.50
+1
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:19 PM   #552
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

more like tree fiddy if ur any good
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:02 PM   #553
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I just purchased poker journal and tranfered all of my sessions this year from cardrunner. I would like to know, how do i use the info to find my bb/hr?? I play limit, no limit & spread limit.

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:37 PM   #554
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Fish no more View Post
I just purchased poker journal and tranfered all of my sessions this year from cardrunner. I would like to know, how do i use the info to find my bb/hr?? I play limit, no limit & spread limit.

Thanks
take your bbs won and divide them by your hours played
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:45 PM   #555
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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more like tree fiddy if ur any good
Maybe more if you can learn how to read what folks have already posted.

If not, then -3.50

Patience, Grasshopper....
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:04 PM   #556
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bankroll question

i want to start playing 1/2 part time, about 20hrs a week.

if i can devote $300 per week to my bankroll at this time what would be my best plan of action?

how much should i save before i start to play if i plan on adding $300 per week until my bankroll is at an appropriate amount.

fwiw i plan on buying in for about 75bb most times.

i was thinking 1-1.5k to start then adding as necessary if i lose a few buy-ins in the beginning.

i am not new to poker by any stretch, more just new to having a separate bankroll only for poker.

thanks for any advice.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:29 PM   #557
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Re: bankroll question

You are going to get different opinions. And this thread might get moved to the bankroll thread. A common answer to this is 20 buy ins.

For 20 hrs per week with + $300/week replenishment rate, you could pretty much start with a couple buy-ins say $700. If you run good you might be properly rolled sooner. If you run bad/play bad you will only play 2 buy ins per week and it will force you to stay out of the card room and you could use the extra time reviewing hands and studying. I personally think trying to grind it up over the course of a couple months is a better plan than waiting 3 months.

Just My$.02
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:53 PM   #558
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Re: bankroll question

Considering the standard live open in 1/2 can range from 6-10bb, your 75bb buy-in plan means you'll be playing a shortstack strategy until you double-up most sessions.

I'd lean toward upping your BI to 100bb, and easing into a 20hr-wk schedule by starting with 10-12hrs per week and maybe using the other 8hrs to study (about 1hr per day).
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:55 PM   #559
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Re: bankroll question

Also, FWIW I think you'll play (and adjust to live play) a bit smarter/quicker if you're not willing to "lose a few BI" because you've upped it to 100bb+ over 75bb.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:19 PM   #560
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Re: bankroll question

i have played a fair amount over the last few years.

ive played twice a month or so over that time, i live in philadelphia, 20 minutes from a nice harrah's cardroom.

i just usually play with my normal $$ though and have never really set aside a poker bankroll. i have recorded my stats though and been a winner, even though im sure its not enough to be statistically significant.

so i was really looking for more advice like the first response because im sure if i up the amount i play it would affect my cash flows too much if i didnt have at least some separate bankroll.

i appreciate all advice though
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:25 PM   #561
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Re: bankroll question

Understandable, plus I blew past the real question you had which was basically whether saving>starting immediately. Just coming from someone who also recently struck out on a pure (no outside funding) BR, HC is soft enough that if you play ABC, your ROR is quite low.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:46 PM   #562
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Re: bankroll question

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Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
You are going to get different opinions. And this thread might get moved to the bankroll thread. A common answer to this is 20 buy ins.

For 20 hrs per week with + $300/week replenishment rate, you could pretty much start with a couple buy-ins say $700. If you run good you might be properly rolled sooner. If you run bad/play bad you will only play 2 buy ins per week and it will force you to stay out of the card room and you could use the extra time reviewing hands and studying. I personally think trying to grind it up over the course of a couple months is a better plan than waiting 3 months.

Just My$.02
You’re talking about the common answer of 20 buy-ins and combine that awful idea with money management when advising opponent to play only two buy-ins per week when losing. What common answer are you talking about?
Most people get confused or they may start believe that advise/approach will do the trick, but it doesn’t. If opponent has got to be forced out of the card room because his short bankroll it become gruesome to even contemplate advising him to waste 20 buy-ins in the first place because probably he’s a losing player in the first place when he's trying to post a question about how to handle his $300 in a 1/2 NL game. It's obvious to me that our friend have no idea how variance and standard deviation works in poker. For your information: the standard deviation of a winning pro player in live Las Vegas cash NL games is about 10-12 x hourly expectation. In a 1/2 NL a winning player can expect to make about 10bb/hour or $20/hour with a standard deviation of $240/hour or 120bb/hour. If your stack doesn't fluctuate in chunks of $250/hour up or down you are not playing with a full deck, so to speak.


In regard to buy-ins and money I would say this:
On this subject what we’ve got here are two concepts. One is called "money management" and one is “bankroll management”. Bankroll management is very important. Even if you are a great player, you must have enough of a bankroll to sustain the inevitable losing streaks. And I have never been opposed to keeping a big enough bankroll of about 50 buy-ins at the minimum to be able to play and sustain losses. The concept that I am always trying to explain to people is the “other” definition of money management. Money management in most people’s minds means quitting simply because of how you are doing that day, or continuing to play simply because of how you are doing that day. In other words, you are in a game and you have lost x number of bets so you quit, only to come back tomorrow. Well, that is a silly concept because it is all one game. If you are a serious poker player, you are playing by the week, by the month, not by the day. And if you for instance are in a very good poker game, you don’t quit simply because of how you are doing. You quit because the game has gotten worse, you quit because you are tired. These are all proper reasons but not because I not getting cards or I’m losing or I’m getting bad cards that day, because I’ve lost a certain amount, or because I’ve won a certain amount. This is simply incorrect. This is not my opinion, this is simply incorrect. If you will play in a game where you have the advantage, the more you play, the more you will eventually win. If you play in a game where you have the disadvantage, the more you play the more you will eventually lose. There’s no way of getting around that. If there was such a thing as getting around having a disadvantage simply by money management, you could go to the crap table and win by money management. In other words by quitting at the right time or not quitting at the right time but you cannot do that. Money management is a completely spurious idea as far as when you quit or when you don’t quit. The only thing that matters when you are gambling is to gamble when the odds are in your favor, when you are the best player, when you figure to win. And when you are in that situation play as long as you can. When you are not in that situation quit at the first opportunity. That’s really all there is to say. Bankroll management as far as having enough money – that’s different. But money management – no.

Che,

Last edited by always_tilting; 03-14-2011 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:22 PM   #563
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

i guess what im asking is:

assuming i am a winning player and am shooting for a bankroll of about 25-30 buy-ins and i can contribute $300 a week to the bankroll until i have it to the target. what amount would others be comfortable saving before starting to play and build the bankroll with poker as well as the $300 contributions.

ie. 15 buy-ins then play to build as well as contribute

or

start with only like 5-7 buy-ins.
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:40 PM   #564
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

^^^ learn the game first.

IMO Giving 1/2 a shot with 10BIs is not that bad. But with a smaller roll you might want to avoid some of the more marginal plays, high variance stuff like flips (AK vs PP) etc...
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:43 PM   #565
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Re: bankroll question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
You are going to get different opinions. And this thread might get moved to the bankroll thread. A common answer to this is 20 buy ins.

For 20 hrs per week with + $300/week replenishment rate, you could pretty much start with a couple buy-ins say $700. If you run good you might be properly rolled sooner. If you run bad/play bad you will only play 2 buy ins per week and it will force you to stay out of the card room and you could use the extra time reviewing hands and studying. I personally think trying to grind it up over the course of a couple months is a better plan than waiting 3 months.

Just My$.02
No reason to wait. Just get in there and play.

Don't move UP unless you're properly rolled,though. But 1/2 is the bottom of the barrel in live poker.

I can think of no reason you'd wait if you have enough for a session other than if you would be scared money. But if you have income to replenish you shouldn't be playing scared. If you lose, wait until you replenish lol. Just do direct deposit $300/mo into separate poker account through the end of the year. If you don't have $3000 BR by then reevaluate your play, lol.

Unless you're unlucky (or bad) you should be building your BR though play. While you add to it from the $ you're willing to invest out of your own pocket.

Obv if you lose 20 bi "out of pocket" then you are not very good and should take up another hobby.
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:02 PM   #566
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by always_tilting View Post
You’re talking about the common answer of 20 buy-ins and combine that awful idea with money management when advising opponent to play only two buy-ins per week when losing. What common answer are you talking about?
Che,
I'm talking about the minimum 20 buy in recomendation that is often quoted (and I assume by OPs question he has read some variation of). Which I guess is as good as any other number for decisions on moving up and is a decent goal for a sustained bankroll target for a non-pro who is taking their poker seriously. I am not suggesting to wait for that though... saving $3-4K before playing 1/2.... that's silly. I am suggesting start right away with a few buy ins.

Rec players with other income sources don't neccessarily need a bank roll. OP is suggesting he would like to build one and begin to treat poker as a business and his question seems to be should he save up x amount of dollars (the perfect supposed number of buy ins) and then go start playing poker. I am suggesting he "take a shot" with a couple weeks of his $300/week and re-evaluate. Going broke with your poker "allowance" when you have external income is not a big deal and you learn in the process.

When you take shots and miss you move down. When you are at the lowest level moving down means not playing until you save up some more dough.

If it doesn't go well I am suggesting "moving down" will be not playing and spending the time allocated for poker studying and reviewing play while saving up the next couple buy ins.

And this

Quote:
But with a smaller roll you might want to avoid some of the more marginal plays, high variance stuff like flips (AK vs PP) etc...

Last edited by cAmmAndo; 03-14-2011 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:17 AM   #567
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Re: Live NL California Card Room Games

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I play at Bay 101 in the $1/$2/$3 NL game in which most people buy in for $100 but you can buy in for more. I was wondering if anyone knew what a "good" player can expect to make at this stake. Would a long run average of $20/hr seem too high? I know rake's a ***** and this game is vastly different from the NL FR games online--way looser. I just have no clue what a good player can expect to average...is it even beatable? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
J
Seems a bit high to me. Every time you double up vs 1 player you loose~ 5% to the rake+ tip. I think the 200-300 buy in games in vegas give you the best chance to hit$ 20 per hour. I don't think varience+ big rake allow that in a 50bb effective stack game.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:41 AM   #568
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Re: Live NL California Card Room Games

Makes sense Dan. My guess was that $20/hr is also too high for the 1/2/3 NL game. The rake and tipping just kill you!
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:26 AM   #569
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hello all, quick BR question

I'm a 3 bb/100 winner at 25 nl over last 300k, and just withdrew 1200 for the purposes of playing live again, at a very soft casino (during peak). I can replenish at about $300/week or so, but can i start playing at my local casino (they're all 1/3 in this area) with 4 BI knowing my WR? (Yes i've had a lot of coaching and i believe my game has very little leaks now).

A few other options is cash a $600 bonus on stars (but less money per vpp because im not SN on stars yet), or withdraw more from my online roll (it's at 42 BI/$1050 because i've been using poker as a living).

Baseball season just started so the longer i wait the less peak time i'll be able to play
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:47 AM   #570
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1/2 NL live

If you really put effort into it.. do you guys think its possible to make at least 100$ 4 out of 5 days a week? every week.. giving 1 day room for the suck outs
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:03 PM   #571
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Re: 1/2 NL live

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If you really put effort into it.. do you guys think its possible to make at least 100$ 4 out of 5 days a week? every week.. giving 1 day room for the suck outs
On average? of course. But unless you play 40+ hours per week to compensate for downswings there's no way you can always "expect" $100

Edit: Still interested to hear what people think about my BR on previous page
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:52 PM   #572
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Searix View Post
Hello all, quick BR question

I'm a 3 bb/100 winner at 25 nl over last 300k, and just withdrew 1200 for the purposes of playing live again, at a very soft casino (during peak). I can replenish at about $300/week or so, but can i start playing at my local casino (they're all 1/3 in this area) with 4 BI knowing my WR? (Yes i've had a lot of coaching and i believe my game has very little leaks now).

A few other options is cash a $600 bonus on stars (but less money per vpp because im not SN on stars yet), or withdraw more from my online roll (it's at 42 BI/$1050 because i've been using poker as a living).

Baseball season just started so the longer i wait the less peak time i'll be able to play
If you can replenish, who cares about BR. If you hit a downswing more than 4 bi then you replenish.

If all goes well you win some and develop a BR and never put another dollar in...

No reason to cash out extra cash. Doesn't make any sense to.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:16 AM   #573
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm a consistent winner at 1/2 and have been thinking about taking a shot at 2/5 ($1000 max BI). What would my bankroll have to be to sit in the game one time? Regularly?

My initial thought was to have at minimum $10k to sit in the game once and $30k to make it my regular game. Are these reasonable numbers? Too high/low?
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:08 AM   #574
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Depends on your risk tolerance.

I'd think you'd be in decent shape if you had:
*20 BI at 1/2 (say $6000)
*Plus whatever you were willing to risk at 2/5 Say $1000 for two BI

If you take a shot at 2/5 with funds that are above what you need for your BR at 1/2 then if you lose your "extra" 2/5 you still have decent BR for 1/2 .

But it depends on your risk tolerance. If you play high variability game and depend on your BR to survive you may want 50 bi instead of 20.

Or if you can't leave 2/5 after dropping a couple of BR you'd want to wait until you had more BR at that level.

Interested in others thoughts on this.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:25 PM   #575
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ive been playing at a local card room which usually has 1-3 tables of 1-2 and sometimes spreads 2-5

I would say the play is similar to the average NL 5 game online but thats a dissservice to the average NL 5 game. Often 8 players "see" the flop. (suited connectors and suited aces can win you 300 bbs in this game)

Ive played just under 51 hours so not much data averaging $23.50 per hour

I play like a super nit and probably cost myself some $$ by doing so but I only had a few buyins I can spare right now (Not playing to really grind at this point...more just for fun)

This game is always bad and I would think this rate is sustainable (maybe not by me...I know sample size) by any good player.

Prime example of silliness. 3 limpers...I have A6 suited on button. I limp. Small blind makes it $6. WE all call. 4 to the flop

Flop is QJ2 ....two of my suit. $27 in the pot

SBshoves for $98. We all fold and he turns over AK saying "I didnt want to get sucked out on that flop" LOL

This is typical in this game...just ridiculous logic.

I find myself often agreeing with the logic at the table. No reason to tap on the tank right??

$20 per hour at a 1/2 game is nothing that unusual imo assuming you game select well
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