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Old 08-01-2013, 06:53 PM   #5526
CrestFox
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Re: Bankroll question

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Originally Posted by CBorders View Post
According to Tony Bigcharles you should be playing 2/4 seven card stud.


Is there a reason why you post under this account and bef99hwk account and have a picture of Tony Bigcharles as your profile pic?
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:13 PM   #5527
GrinningBuddha
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Some data for those looking for 1000+ hr winrates:

This is all 1-2 NL Holdem at my local cardroom. Max buy-in is $500, average buy-in is ~$220. 75%-80% of my play is weeknights since I work most Fri/Sat nights. Largest downswing is $1415 over two sessions (sessions 60-61 on graph 2).

Rake is $5+$1, plus $1 tip for pots that get that big.

Since I started tracking, 1600+ hrs (approx 4 yrs):



The last 1000 hours, approx 2 yrs:

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Old 08-02-2013, 04:33 PM   #5528
gobbledygeek
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Nice graphs buddah.

GcanadiangamesconfirmedeasyG
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #5529
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by GrinningBuddha View Post
Some data for those looking for 1000+ hr winrates:

This is all 1-2 NL Holdem at my local cardroom. Max buy-in is $500, average buy-in is ~$220. 75%-80% of my play is weeknights since I work most Fri/Sat nights. Largest downswing is $1415 over two sessions (sessions 60-61 on graph 2).

Rake is $5+$1, plus $1 tip for pots that get that big.

Since I started tracking, 1600+ hrs (approx 4 yrs):



The last 1000 hours, approx 2 yrs:

nice. what is the name of the app? I'd like to start doing that.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:33 PM   #5530
GrinningBuddha
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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nice. what is the name of the app? I'd like to start doing that.
The one and only Poker Journal. By far the most I've paid for an app and 100% worth the $12.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:16 PM   #5531
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Does your room not have higher stakes? Not saying $500 1/2 isn't awesome, just curious
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:26 PM   #5532
GrinningBuddha
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Does your room not have higher stakes? Not saying $500 1/2 isn't awesome, just curious
2-5 NL runs infrequently, normally Fri/Sat when I can't play. That added to the frequent pillaging of my roll for real life issues means I'm kinda stuck at 1-2. I'm looking to make a concerted effort to address both of these issues though.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:01 AM   #5533
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Is this rivercree?
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:28 AM   #5534
GrinningBuddha
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Is this rivercree?
Yellowhead.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #5535
bstillmatic
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

During your two session $1415 downswing was that strictly negative variance or combination of some bad play as well? tks
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:20 PM   #5536
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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During your two session $1415 downswing was that strictly negative variance or combination of some bad play as well? tks
It was two years ago and I seem to have blocked it out of my memory, but I seem to remember it was a combination of playing in a couple of super juicy games with some maniacal action, not making hands and making some poor choices due to the frustration of losing in these amazing games.

Everyone is going to hit downswings. I've been lucky enough to not hit an extended one in live poker yet, though when you're only playing 2 nights a week any downswing seems interminable. A lot of us can play this game very well most of the time, the true test of a poker player is how close to his A game he plays when he's facing adversity, and to a lesser extent when he's running hot. There's no quicker way to exacerbate a downswing than to play badly on top of getting some bad luck!
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:47 PM   #5537
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Most 1/2 games in my area have a max buy in of $40.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:49 PM   #5538
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I don't agree with some of these. Are the games you play in really that tough?
I disagree with your disagree. The recommendations in question are good ones when beginning a session. Games and situations vary over time, venue, and player profiles. You do find a lot of rec players who do play like that: look for any excuse to justify a call (they came to play, remember, and you're not playing if you're folding) 3! when they have the nutz or close to it, no understanding of position, can't recognize an iso raise for what it is, and you'll get called.

See how the game plays, then add in your strategic adjustments to take advantage of those who always run nut scared, the nits that can be bluffed off hands because they will never call with less than two-pair, those who telegraph their holdings by bet size tells.

Don't ever assume that all your opponents are always bad players. That could be a major mistake if you underestimate your vill, but, for the most part, your vills aren't very sophisticated players. They're there mainly for the entertainment value, don't expect to win, but are grateful if they luck box it. Identify the occasional dangerous players, nit it up and let the rec players play. That's what they came for, and you'll get the chips if you nit it up until you have a good reason to believe otherwise.

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Most 1/2 games in my area have a max buy in of $40.
Seriously? The only way this would make sense is if these are $1.00 -- $2.00 limit games with a single $0.50 BB. For any 1/2 NLHE, that should be a minimum buy, not the max.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #5539
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
Most 1/2 games in my area have a max buy in of $40.
That's the problem with playing in LA.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:53 PM   #5540
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Kyuubimon View Post
I disagree with your disagree. The recommendations in question are good ones when beginning a session. Games and situations vary over time, venue, and player profiles. You do find a lot of rec players who do play like that: look for any excuse to justify a call (they came to play, remember, and you're not playing if you're folding) 3! when they have the nutz or close to it, no understanding of position, can't recognize an iso raise for what it is, and you'll get called.

See how the game plays, then add in your strategic adjustments to take advantage of those who always run nut scared, the nits that can be bluffed off hands because they will never call with less than two-pair, those who telegraph their holdings by bet size tells.

Don't ever assume that all your opponents are always bad players. That could be a major mistake if you underestimate your vill, but, for the most part, your vills aren't very sophisticated players. They're there mainly for the entertainment value, don't expect to win, but are grateful if they luck box it. Identify the occasional dangerous players, nit it up and let the rec players play. That's what they came for, and you'll get the chips if you nit it up until you have a good reason to believe otherwise.
I'm sorry, I guess I just have the honor in playing in super soft uncapped 1/2 and 2/5 games. I don't know what "real" poker is apparently.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:25 PM   #5541
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The 1/2 games here have a min buy in of 80
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:32 AM   #5542
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have a logged sample of 1000 hours. I would say 75-80% of the time spent playing is NLHE, and 20-25% is PLO high only. I play 115 hours per month.

Of those 1000 hours, I'd say 10% of them are in a casino setting, and 90% are at home games. The home game rake is 15 dollar max. (I know, crazy...I live in Georgia) The blinds are 1-3. but I would say it plays more like a 2-5 (or sometimes bigger) based on the frequent straddles and money on the table.

My observed hourly is $41/hour over the 1000 hours.

Within those 1k hours I had a 300 hour block where my hourly was -$3.72 =).

I have android so I don't use poker journal. I use Poker Manager.

You easily need to have enough money liquid be able to go three months without making a dime and still pay bills and whatnot. I think my biggest downswing is like 12 buy ins, and I did that twice in my observed sample. (one buy in =500)

Bankroll requirements vary based on a combination of:

A) monthly nut

B) risk tolerance

C) borrowing power


Depending on these factors, your roll could be anywhere from $500-100,000 and be "appropriate"

Assuming you are a normal dude and pay like 500 a month in rent and maybe a 150 dollar car payment, and maybe some other stuff here and there...I'd say 15-20k is comfy.

Last edited by nutinsider; 08-07-2013 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:39 PM   #5543
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Finally finished uploading all of my sessions into pokerjournal. These are my results since I started playing in April.

After a 2 year break from poker following BF, I decided to finally try playing in casinos instead of online. I started with a $1-2-2//$5 drop ($1 if no flop) game. The minimum open was $4, with the buyin capped at $200. The stacks were very shallow, the rake was high, and my results were bad from a combination of runbad and having to adjust to live. But really, it was mostly absolutely insane runbad.



After spending April playing this game, I decided to check out the $1-2-3 game at a nearby casino. Oh my god were the games/structure better. A lot of the winnings actually came not from value betting, but using my tight image to 2 barrel a ton after cbetting. Most people peel the flop very light and then give turn bets a ton of respect...(If you haven't been in many hands, that is)

[

Bout a week ago I passed the $10k BR mark and moved up to $2/3/5. Only have ~37 hours logged in so far but the games seem pretty good.

Overall results,



145 hours at $1-2-2
363.5 hours at $1-2-3
34.75 hours at $2-3-5


This is for San Jose, Bay Area, California.

Last edited by WinEvryRacex; 08-09-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:19 PM   #5544
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live poker: variance, winrates etc

Hi everyone. i've always been an online player, started off with 18 yrs old (20 now) and i had played like 20 hours of live poker until these past few days where i played quite a few days in a row, which brought up a few doubts for me.

talking about live poker in ssfr the other day someone pointed out something that i hadnt realized. if you're making something like $100/hr playing 5/10 (10bbs/hr, from what i understand thats pretty doable right?) you're more than often gonna be flipping for pots that are your whole $EV for a week's work, assuming you grind between 30 and 40 hours a week. Is the variance of live poker much bigger than online pokers? can a winning player actually have a +1year downswing playing tables with 2-3 fishes and 5 semi-regs/fishes that dont have a ****ing clue?

am i right to think a std winrate for a winning online player should be between 10-15bbs/hr? during my live poker grind these past few days i talked quite a bit with some dude that was nice enough to tell me his winrate, he was making $20/hr playing 2/5 which really surprised me because even thou he probably would have been a fish on a 2/4 game online and likely wouldnt beat .25/.50 online, he was pretty decent compared to the rest of the semi regs

anyway would apreciate any comments on this, ty.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:28 PM   #5545
masaraksh
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Re: live poker: variance, winrates etc

i've played a bit over 2k hrs of live poker since I was 20 (I'm almost 24 now). With about half of that being 5/10-10/20.

My advice would be to go to school/keep day job. IMO, do something else AND poker ... don't just do poker.


to answer your question though, yeah variance happens. Also, what do you mean flipping for your weeks EV... if, and thats IF, you avg 100/hr (which you won't) then the "EV" for a 40hr work week is 4k. How often are you flipping for an 8k pot in an average 5/10 game? really.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:33 PM   #5546
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Re: live poker: variance, winrates etc

There's a dedicated thread for Qs such as yours. I'd move this there, but I'm on my phone.

APD edit: I moved it. I think we worked on this at the same time.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:11 PM   #5547
Arggg93
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

thx for moving it, sorry for not seeing this

@masaraksh: you dont have to be flipping for a 8k pot, you have to be flipping for a 4k pot to be flipping for your entire weeks expectation, wont happen that often either but it's not that wierd
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:30 PM   #5548
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by nutinsider View Post

Assuming you are a normal dude and pay like 500 a month in rent and maybe a 150 dollar car payment, and maybe some other stuff here and there...I'd say 15-20k is comfy.
remind me to move where you're at.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:50 AM   #5549
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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remind me to move where you're at.
$500/mo rent and $150 car payment are very reasonable.

two-bedroom apartments where i live are about $900/month. so that's $450 with a roommate. my car is under $200 with a high interest rate. it's 10 years old.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:51 AM   #5550
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Must be nice. I pay 950$ a month for a room in a **** hole. Can't wait to move.
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