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Old 07-29-2013, 04:01 PM   #5501
Neutrogena
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Numbers are kind of unbalanced because most players, both pros and recs, would avoid weekdays.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:06 PM   #5502
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by food123456 View Post
I have roughly $700 in my bankroll and intend to play 1 session for 12 hours at my local casino. What is the best way to optimize profitability with regards to stakes/buyin? I intend to play NL holdem; my casino offers 1-2 (60 min 300 max) , 2-5 (200 min 500 max) and 5-10 (500 min 2k max). I used to play online and was a decent winner at midstakes mtts/cash games. To be clear, I want seasoned live players recomending which stakes to play and how much to buy in for. This is a hypothetical situation posed to settle a bet with a friend, so please treat it as such.
I did something similar a while back, but I only had $400 to start with. While my BR isn't where I want it to be yet, I'm pretty comfy.

Buy in full, play ABC, avoid marginal spots, and don't get coolered.

Also, avoid a loosing session for the first 2-3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
WTH do not buy in for $100.

Buy in for $200 and play ABC poker and have 3 bullets. Or/also hopefully you get comfortable and can top off to $300 after a bit.

Here are some live tips, as an online 6maxer you are like horribly prepared for live 1/2.

1). Do not bluff. Like ever. I mean like aside from cbetting when heads up. There's no such thing as a scare card in 1/2. If someone has TPNK they are not folding.

2). Tighten pf range. Don't squeeze, don't 3! light, etc.

3). Basically there's zero FE. So don't bluff, but valuetown hard. I mean really hard. Take b/b/b lines with TPGK+ like always.

4). By the same token you will see less bluffs. Someone 3! you pre? That is AKs/QQ+ and with some villains KK+ only.

I mean I'm saying all of this in an exaggerated comedic manner for effect, but for the most part I'm 100% serious.

I would also recommend leaving atm card at home. First time live experiences can be especially tilting for former online players.

Best of luck. You will be amazed at what you are called down with.
This is just about the most accurate poast I've ever read.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:41 PM   #5503
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
WTH do not buy in for $100.

Buy in for $200 and play ABC poker and have 3 bullets. Or/also hopefully you get comfortable and can top off to $300 after a bit.

Here are some live tips, as an online 6maxer you are like horribly prepared for live 1/2.

1). Do not bluff. Like ever. I mean like aside from cbetting when heads up. There's no such thing as a scare card in 1/2. If someone has TPNK they are not folding.

2). Tighten pf range. Don't squeeze, don't 3! light, etc.

3). Basically there's zero FE. So don't bluff, but valuetown hard. I mean really hard. Take b/b/b lines with TPGK+ like always.

4). By the same token you will see less bluffs. Someone 3! you pre? That is AKs/QQ+ and with some villains KK+ only.

I mean I'm saying all of this in an exaggerated comedic manner for effect, but for the most part I'm 100% serious.

I would also recommend leaving atm card at home. First time live experiences can be especially tilting for former online players.

Best of luck. You will be amazed at what you are called down with.
I don't agree with some of these. Are the games you play in really that tough?
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:06 PM   #5504
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I don't agree with some of these. Are the games you play in really that tough?
I wouldn't describe a game where people don't fold as tough.

Let me put it this way, when I first transitioned to live, I was betting awesome scare cards, squeezing in great spots, 3!'ing light in good spots as well. Every time Id get called down.

Id triple barrel Q55AK and get called by JJ and be like wtf gramps has a soul read on me. No, he's just been getting 92o for the past hour and he's not folding a top pp dammit.

At first I was like what the hell this game sucks, these people never fold. Then it hit me. These people NEVER fold, this is the greatest game ever played.

Obviously as I already stated I'm speaking in exaggerated terms for effect, but not much, especially 1/2.

Your no max game plays differently, stacks are much deeper and some of your villains are competent, so obviously you can actually play some poker.

Play the reg 1/2 at your room when you get a chance and you'll see what I mean. I cold 4! the other day and jammed a 338 flop and got called by KQhh (one h on flop). I hadn't played a hand in an hour. Seriously.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:04 PM   #5505
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I wouldn't describe a game where people don't fold as tough.

Let me put it this way, when I first transitioned to live, I was betting awesome scare cards, squeezing in great spots, 3!'ing light in good spots as well. Every time Id get called down.

Id triple barrel Q55AK and get called by JJ and be like wtf gramps has a soul read on me. No, he's just been getting 92o for the past hour and he's not folding a top pp dammit.

At first I was like what the hell this game sucks, these people never fold. Then it hit me. These people NEVER fold, this is the greatest game ever played.

Obviously as I already stated I'm speaking in exaggerated terms for effect, but not much, especially 1/2.

Your no max game plays differently, stacks are much deeper and some of your villains are competent, so obviously you can actually play some poker.

Play the reg 1/2 at your room when you get a chance and you'll see what I mean. I cold 4! the other day and jammed a 338 flop and got called by KQhh (one h on flop). I hadn't played a hand in an hour. Seriously.
I gotcha. didn't mean to sound like a total a$$hole or anything. just curious on your reasoning.

I mean, even in 1/2, there are spots to bluff, squeeze, and bet weaker hands for value. there def are FE spots as well. as far as V's 3bet range, you are correct. most will always never do it without KK or AA. Some I've seen with only AA.

as far as leaving the debit card at home, I don't believe in session stop-loss. if the game is good, you should keep playing as long as you are playing well.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:27 AM   #5506
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Hi Guys - Today is my first day on this forum. I have a few questions and I want to thank ahead of time for any help and advice. Sorry for the long post ahead of time

I learned poker during moneymakers win in 2003 but have been primarily a live player. anyway, i have played off and on since then and where i started as a winning player against really bad players I think I am more of a break even player today but i am even questioning that in the middle of a bad downswing.

1) How without all the nifty acronyms/stats offered when you play online with the fancy tools do you determine if you suck? or if you just need to wait it out?

2) I live in colorado where we can't play no-limit but instead have to play these 100$ spread games. I enjoy playing the 2/5 100 Spread and sometimes Ill play the 1/2 100 Spread. Given I imagine the Spread rolls should be lower the NL at the same levels given it can play like limit later in the hand what do you recommend they should be?
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:37 AM   #5507
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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bump
I will answer part 1 of your question.

If you don't know weather or not you suck you most likely suck. When you have a large edge on a game you can actually taste it. You know how to adjust and play against just about every player at the table. You play position - Iso limpers - c-bet good flops and barrel good turn cards...You are forcing your opponents to react to you. The list goes on and on.

As a general rule I have found that people that are not sure weather they are "good or not" do not have positional awareness and have many fundamental flaws in their game...as well as NO GAME PLAN for when they are in a hand (every hand is kind of an adventure)

That being said in about 1000 hours you will know for sure weather or not you suck...possibly sooner if you suck really bad
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #5508
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by SlipperyAces View Post
1) How without all the nifty acronyms/stats offered when you play online with the fancy tools do you determine if you suck? or if you just need to wait it out?
Track results religiously, take mental notes of specific hands which have questions on and post them for feedback. IME, it's better to post marginal value hands, as they'll be better at identifying potential leaks you may not know about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipperyAces View Post
2) I live in colorado where we can't play no-limit but instead have to play these 100$ spread games. I enjoy playing the 2/5 100 Spread and sometimes Ill play the 1/2 100 Spread. Given I imagine the Spread rolls should be lower the NL at the same levels given it can play like limit later in the hand what do you recommend they should be?
I have no idea.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:38 PM   #5509
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yea, squid is right. If you're questioning whether or not you can beat a certain table/stake, you are probably a long term loser.

This is especially true at the $1/2 and $1/3 level, where you should be the best player at your table all the time.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:14 PM   #5510
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey guys. Living in Vegas and planning to grind 30-40 hrs per week. My monthly nut is abt 1500 (can be whittled down to abt 1200 if I live very spartan) with a passive income of 1100/mo. So, poker only needs to net me abt 400/month or $2-3/hr based on my expected volume. Life roll and poker roll are one in the same...abt $8800 right now.

Only 20 hrs in so far. Expect 200 by end of aug. started tracking with poker journal. Can't wait to see what the avgs look like as the hours mount.

Ps. I'm playing 1/2 at V and buying in for $200 initially for now. Will prob start buying in for $300 as I get more comfortable.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:07 PM   #5511
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Sounds like it would be rather easy for you.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:33 PM   #5512
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

TeamKB. Keep your eyes open and game select. Not only just tables, but which room you play in and what hours you go. Some room/time combos are MUCH more profitable than others.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:51 PM   #5513
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TeamKB. Keep your eyes open and game select. Not only just tables, but which room you play in and what hours you go. Some room/time combos are MUCH more profitable than others.
is there a way to find out these room/time combos other than brute trial and error?
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:56 PM   #5514
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

look for when there are more games and when people are drinking

Also big tournies for fish are your friend
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:05 PM   #5515
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You really don't have to do much given how low your monthly nut is.

Just work on your game and that alone is sufficient.
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:07 PM   #5516
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I track my Live Poker stats on my phone using the Poker Income app... here's my results for this year, considering all cash games and tournaments played..

$8,807 Profit
$31.98 an hour
$111.48 a session
275 hours and 21 minutes played
64% Cashed (51/79)
$1751 in tips/meals spent (this is a rough estimate, but I am a good tipper, as this is at local underground card-rooms)

Game Types by profit
$ 480 playing texas holdem tourneys
-$ 400 Omaha 8 PL
$6,881 2/5 NL = $47.00 hr
$1,846 1/2 NL = $16.78 hr


As my game has gravitated toward 2/5 I have noticed that I am not as successful at 1/2 anymore (mostly due to opening my range and not taking it as seriously.. over confident that I can out-play my opponent)


The month of July hasn't been a great one as I am down about $450... The "card-room" I am up about $6,700 at isn't meeting as much regularly and it has effected my win rate.

There isn't a casino here and I play in underground card rooms, which can take a very steep rake (for 2/5 I believe it is 5% with a cap at $30).

I think I may have been overconfident because I was playing older guys who own restaurants and the sort (i.e. don't care as much about money and will call you down with any Ax)

I was trying to break into a game which plays deeper than my bankroll (i.e. most buy in for 1K, but I am more around 400-500) This game is scattered with agressive players, but it seems very beatable.

Crushing the game with the forementioned restaurant owner / Donks has made me develop some bad habbits and was wondering what everyone has done when they feel they aren't playing their best poker?

As far as my studying goes.. I read Dan Harrington's Vol 1 series (well about 75% of it)

I bought Phill Gordon's little gold book, but didn't read too much of it. It was more about hand combinations which I liked, but lent it to a friend and never got it back... it seemed more geared toward online poker too...

I have also recently signed up for Bart Hanson's sight seatopenpoker.net

I enjoy the pod-casts and watching the live-poker, however, I don't seem to be gaining too much knowledge from it other than being entertained as most of the limits are 5-5 and up, played at the Bike Casino in LA and it is mostly just his general thoughts on plays....

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to work on my LIVE Poker? Part of my problem maybe the small sample size of hours... Recently I have been able to play poker 3 or 4 times a week rather than 1 or 2 (i.e. bought the wife an I-pad and she now understands I can make regular money at this and it isn't just gambling) I think given learning my new compettion at the new games and just playing more hours has leveled out my results.... Therefore it is time to get back to work and study the game with more dicipline, or give it up and just play when I want to have fun...

What is the best place to study LIVE cash games 2-5 and 1-2 in your opinion?


Sorry for the long-post...

Last edited by Grindhog Day; 07-30-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:16 PM   #5517
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is there a way to find out these room/time combos other than brute trial and error?
You can ask other players, but they don't have too much incentive to tell you. If you're a good player they shouldn't want you in their game, if they *DO* want to play against you it's probably because you're easy money.

Trial and error is the easiest way. Look for alcohol at the table, loud and happy players, big stacks and big bets. It also gets you out and about and alleviates some of the 'grind' feeling by playing in different venues.
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:18 PM   #5518
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Ps. I'm playing 1/2 at V and buying in for $200 initially for now. Will prob start buying in for $300 as I get more comfortable.
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is there a way to find out these room/time combos other than brute trial and error?
I play full time and feel that the games at the v as a general rule are some of the highest quality in vegas. It is the largest room spreading the most games...etc etc. I have a pal that plays 1/2 at PH and have sweat his action there and must say for 1/2 nlh those games are top notch. You should check out all of the rooms though and see for yourself.

I Play full time at the v day/swing 2/5. Currently on vaca but back in town thurs. Stop by and say hi. I'll do my best to give you the lay of the land. I have long hair and wear a black hat when I play. I have been described by more than one as a "buff hippy" so I should not be too hard to spot

good luck
Walt
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:24 PM   #5519
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Grindhog,

The best place to study is here. Post/respond to HH in the llsnl forum and you'll quickly realize who the competent posters are.

2+2 is my sole source of poker knowledge. I am interested in reading some of Tommy Angelo's stuff on the mental game of poker but that's more so for leisure reading.

Good PG&C threads to follow:

"Fogo's Grindtime live"

"11t's 30k bankroll rebuild challenge"

"Not Afraid of the Nosebleeds! Adventures of a shot taking llsnl grinder"

"Flint Tropics Style... I am going semi pro"

Good PG&C threads (that are old) to read from start to finish:

"Another Kid Another Dream" (warning this is long and you will be addicted)

"I just quit my 6 figure job to play poker"
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:28 PM   #5520
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Best place to start is here, but this isn't the best place for learning continuation.

To beat the game? 2+2 is plenty. More? Not so much.
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:30 PM   #5521
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Grindhog,

2+2 is my sole source of poker knowledge.
Thanks for the direction..... I will check out those threads... Here I was thinking I should get a book or training videos, etc.. duh just use this site more efficently!
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #5522
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Thanks for the direction..... I will check out those threads... Here I was thinking I should get a book or training videos, etc.. duh just use this site more efficently!
I won't let Avarita get away with too much modesty. You can learn a ton from stalking his posts.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:44 PM   #5523
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I play full time and feel that the games at the v as a general rule are some of the highest quality in vegas. It is the largest room spreading the most games...etc etc. I have a pal that plays 1/2 at PH and have sweat his action there and must say for 1/2 nlh those games are top notch. You should check out all of the rooms though and see for yourself.

I Play full time at the v day/swing 2/5. Currently on vaca but back in town thurs. Stop by and say hi. I'll do my best to give you the lay of the land. I have long hair and wear a black hat when I play. I have been described by more than one as a "buff hippy" so I should not be too hard to spot

good luck
Walt
sounds good. ill be there playing 1/2. i usually get there around 1pm and stay til 8 or 9. so, ill keep an eye out for you. thanks.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:31 PM   #5524
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Track results religiously, take mental notes of specific hands which have questions on and post them for feedback. IME, it's better to post marginal value hands, as they'll be better at identifying potential leaks you may not know about.
thanks. where should I be posting these hands for feedback? should i be starting threads per hand or should i just be posting in a specific thread?
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Old 08-01-2013, 05:13 PM   #5525
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Post one had per thread, and only one hand per session unless you've hit a couple of really interesting spots. Don't post results in the OP. Give villain reads and relevant history, stack sizes, position. Usually it's sufficient to post the pre-flop action and the flop texture.
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