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Old 06-02-2013, 05:38 PM   #5151
kb coolman
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

God damn that must have been one juicy 5/10 game. That's a big fat cherry on top of a really good month. Congrats.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:47 PM   #5152
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I just got an iPhone and have been using Poker Income. Is the general consensus that Poker Journal is the best results tracking app?
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:01 PM   #5153
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by cannabusto View Post
I just got an iPhone and have been using Poker Income. Is the general consensus that Poker Journal is the best results tracking app?
IMO it is the best hands down! It is clean and easy to use!
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:05 PM   #5154
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
First full month using Poker Journal. All play is M-F between 9-6. Obviously running well, but have not had pleasure yet of playing on weekend, when games are even juicier.

5/10 is rarely worth playing. Hopped in on a day it was particularly juicy and ran well. Pretty sure that hourly is not sustainable... (Or any of them long-term).

Small sample size of course, but my Friday hourly is significantly higher than Mon-Thu. About 400 hours tracked since Feb, and hourly is over 20BBs. Am hoping to be able to start playing more hours in coming months...still just a part-time gig. Curious to see where it's at after 1k hours. I know the top top pros in card room make around 70-80. I'd consider myself among the top 5 regs. Guess time will tell.

I would say you are definitely able to crush the game for more than 10bb/hr but less than 20bb/hr. Where you fall between those numbers no one can say as of now. 1000 hours will definitely be better. More than that will be better yet. The key is to keep your head in the game and keep playing your A game even if the cards turn on you. If you can do that I am confident in my statements. Keep crushing!
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:17 PM   #5155
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by kb coolman View Post
God damn that must have been one juicy 5/10 game. That's a big fat cherry on top of a really good month. Congrats.
Thanks. It really was the cherry on top, since it happened late Friday evening (May 31st), and was the last session I played. About 1500 of it was boat over boat, and I was fortunate enough to be on the winning end.

I do think PokerJournal helps my play quite a bit, not just for the obvious reasons but also because it gives me a very accurate way to keep score. And as silly as it sound setting certain video game-esq goals and limits for myself forces me to play better. It brings out the best of my competitive nature and makes the grind a bit more fun.


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The key is to keep your head in the game and keep playing your A game even if the cards turn on you.
That could be a problem. Pretty sure my game caps out at around B+.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:44 PM   #5156
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Well this month was pretty crappy, didn't get to play as many days as I wanted, had to go out of town for about a week. Because of the NBA playoffs I've also been starting my sessions later at night, usually around 9 PM after the games are over, which has resulted in shorter 3-5 hour sessions than I usually play. Ran pretty awful with all-in EV again this month, losing a number of hands on river 1-4 outers for pretty large pots, but what can you do....If I had won a few of those hands the month would look pretty good. Not horrible, not great, but any profitable month is a good thing. Did not play any 2/5 this month, only 1/2.

May results:

Total sessions: 20
Total winnings: $2,507
Average win per session: $125.35
Total winnings year-to-date: $23,231
Average win per session year-to-date: $178.70

LOL. I wish I ran that bad.

I've stopped tracking results temporarily. I could go back and input them, but I'm trying not to worry about wins/losses (even though I post them in my well).
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:31 PM   #5157
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
5/10 is rarely worth playing. Hopped in on a day it was particularly juicy and ran well. Pretty sure that hourly is not sustainable... (Or any of them long-term).

I LOLd hard.... why wouldn't 229 bbs/hr be sustainable?
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:01 PM   #5158
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Where to begin?

Hello everyone, first time posting in the LLSNL part of this forum, but I've been creeping around for a while. I'm an 18 year old who just graduated from high school and now have a summer full of work and not much else before college.

My question is, where should I start if I want to become a live cash game player? I currently have around $1500 saved up and I've started work for the summer. I think I will be able to make probably $700-800 at least working this job. I also am playing cash online, starting out at 4NL and I have worked my way up from a $20 bankroll up to currently $140. I have cashed out before even though I live in the US, but I'm mostly using this as a tool to practice my cash game skills, I'm not worried about the actual money.

So what do you guys think? Do I have to just save up the money then take a shot at 1-2? Or is there a better way to go about it? Thanks for the help!
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:20 PM   #5159
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Re: Where to begin?

is your college already payed for? How long have you been playing online? $1500 is plenty to start up with, but you do have a significant risk of ruin even if you are a winning player. You have to be OK with losing that $1500 otherwise I'd say it's best to keep playing online and save up a little more, but if it's disposable income then go ahead and try it a couple times.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:25 PM   #5160
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Re: Where to begin?

College is already paid for and I've been playing with that $20 for a couple months. Was breakeven playing SNG's for probably 2 months then started getting into cash games and have consistently won since then.

I understand there is risk involved, but I want to set myself up to lose the money only if I'm a losing player. I don't want it to be because of variance, so if I need to save up more that would be possible for me.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:08 PM   #5161
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Re: Where to begin?

I mean u have enough to start $1/2 if your job will pay your bills. Will u be working during school also? I'd prob try to have like $2500 if not but go ahead and hit it if you'll have another source of income for food etc.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #5162
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Re: Where to begin?

In a perfect world you have $4-6K and variance becomes a moot point, but if you think you want to go ahead and start playing then $1500 is fine. It's a lot more than I started with. If you bust then just build it up again. It'll be pretty key to be analyzing pretty closely to make sure you're not throwing money away. That means a lot of time off the felt and on this forum. Personally, $1500 would be plenty for me to get started, but I've proven I can beat $1/2. I think you're probably OK to get to it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:19 PM   #5163
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Re: Where to begin?

If you're only 18, where do you expect to be able to physically play live?
Most casinos are 21+, except for some (not all) Indian casinos.

If you really want to drop your risk or ruin to something very low you'll need around 20BI, $4000. Which it doesn't sound like you'll be able to do this summer. ($800 for the whole summer sounds like a **** job btw.)

Even if you're a winning player at 4NL you're going to take some time to adjust to a live game. The mechanics and etiquette are all different, the average player style is very different, and the information available to you is very different. No HUD, no running count of the pot size, live tells, false tells, angle shots, etc.

If you've got a place to play close by, I'd just go and start playing. Expect to lose your entire $1500 between the learning curve and variance.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:45 PM   #5164
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Re: Where to begin?

@DeepStack all of my college will be paid for (scholarships and rich grandparents). I have not yet moved to where my college is so I don't know if I am going to have a job there, but I most likely will.

@spikeraw Yeah we will see, I think the minimum I would try anything with would be $2000 but you never know. At this point I think $2500 is my goal for a beginning bankroll.

@Angrist There are a couple 18+ casinos in my area, like within a couple hour drive. I will have to figure something out though. The closest 18+ casino is actually 10 minutes away but unfortunately only runs a spread limit game because that is all they allow in the state of Washington.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:45 PM   #5165
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Re: Where to begin?

If you can find a .5/1 home game, that would prob be a better intro to live play and less risk-of-ruin. If you can't find one, but you know a few poker people, host one.

ETA, if the spread limit game you mention is 1/2-60, or something like that, that's a perfect starting point. Depending on where in Washington you live, going to Oregon club games is a possibility too.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:58 PM   #5166
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Re: Where to begin?

Not advocating this, but I started with $1,000 at 3/5NL $200 min/max buyin (played pretty nitty, ran good, and had a full time job to replace if lost). If you can easily replace the BR with a job then you can take more RoR.

Quote:
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If you can find a .5/1 home game, that would prob be a better intro to live play and less risk-of-ruin. If you can't find one, but you know a few poker people, host one.
Second the home game idea. It's a great way to get aclimated to live poker and the buy in structures will always be better for your bankroll. I've seen poker games run through meetup.com pretty effectively, and if there isn't a poker meetup in your area on the website, start one up yourself, people will flock to it.

GL
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:09 PM   #5167
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

first 100 hrs since may 23rd at 1/2. Avg 35 hrs a week as of now. hopefully can begin playing 2/5 full time soon. BR is at 8600, and have taken two very short shots at 2/5 so far where i've made 400 in about 2 hrs of play.

Spoiler:



Spoiler:

Last edited by fogodchao; 06-11-2013 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:42 PM   #5168
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

its my first official year of poker. started out with only a 600-700 br on january 1st playing 1/2 200 cap. i go to school and have a ft job so i only play anywhere from 8-15 hours per week. although there have been a few instances in between january and now that I have made a few overnight trips for poker, staying 3-4 nights/days putting in hours. by march, i started playing 2/5 regularly with a relatively small br. I now have over 7k grinding 1/2 no max and 2/5 consistently. my style is super tag, sometimes too nitty or tight in certain spots. its been pretty successful. just trying to make more money to be stable.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:17 PM   #5169
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

^sounds great man, keep it up
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:30 AM   #5170
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by wewa925@yahoo.com View Post
its my first official year of poker. started out with only a 600-700 br on january 1st playing 1/2 200 cap. i go to school and have a ft job so i only play anywhere from 8-15 hours per week. although there have been a few instances in between january and now that I have made a few overnight trips for poker, staying 3-4 nights/days putting in hours. by march, i started playing 2/5 regularly with a relatively small br. I now have over 7k grinding 1/2 no max and 2/5 consistently. my style is super tag, sometimes too nitty or tight in certain spots. its been pretty successful. just trying to make more money to be stable.
You should probably keep track of your actual hours and wins/losses per session.

Keep it up though! Tag/nitty has been working for me too at 1/2. May work less at 2/5, depending on how the 2/5 games in my area play compared to the 1/2 games. How do the two stakes compare in your experience so far?
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:16 AM   #5171
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by corlath View Post
You should probably keep track of your actual hours and wins/losses per session.

Keep it up though! Tag/nitty has been working for me too at 1/2. May work less at 2/5, depending on how the 2/5 games in my area play compared to the 1/2 games. How do the two stakes compare in your experience so far?
sorry my post was a little vague. i do keep up with all of that.

both the 1/2 and 2/5 games i play in are uncapped so everyone is relatively deep at all times. in general they are soft so very profitable. bunch of loose players and old men who call because they "dont want to be bluffed". just absolutely perfect. my extreme tag style works in both games. i can be card dead for an hour and fold almost every hand, then pick up the nuts and get paid off.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:52 PM   #5172
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Started playing for a living beginning of this year. Built up my bankroll from 700 to 8500 in 273.8 hours averaging $33.19 an hour. Playing 1/2 200 Max CAPPED (Amazing part) with slight hours at 1/2 un-capped, and three sessions at 2/5 with 6 hours a session (Only on juicy games) at a card room about an hour away. I've put in 70 hours playing 1/3 on trips to the casino. I could put in more hours but the drive to the card room is killer and takes a serious toll on gas (4.8 ltr V8), and I got out of the hospital after being in there for months at the end of last year from multiple surgeries from being a paraplegic (bed sores, spider bite), and am getting my body used to sitting up for long periods of time again (or else I would put in more hours).

I receive a $717 SSI check a month to help with bills and such, so it's not as difficult as someone who solely plays poker for a living. Fortunately, almost everything I own is paid off for and I have a small amount of bills.

My goal is to build my bankroll to 20k+ and move to the nearest casinos which is two and a half hours away, and grind 1/3 daily putting in 40-50 hours a week. I'm going to get a one bedroom apartment near the casino and build my bankroll up to 40K and move up to 2/5.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:03 AM   #5173
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

What is your monthly nut?
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:59 PM   #5174
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Played another 100 hours. Continued to run bad for a while (including losing a huge hand SF over SF with no BBJ ). Then I decided to check out the casino 3 minutes away from the one I played and with a little better luck/games I'm now in the black.

201.75 hours
$+3,686
$18.27/hr

I think $30/hr might be achievable at this second casino (1/2/3).
Bah; another 100 hours, another breakeven month.

310.75 hours
+$3,760
$12.10/hr

During the last 28/110 hours my play was quite mediocre, including several large mistakes. These hours aside, I've been running bad.

Overall, I feel as though 10bb/hr ($30/hr @1/2/3) is definitely achievable, though not by me until I start playing better. It's harder to get an estimate for the winrate I "should" have without any hand/EV tracking tools, but I'd guess it as $18/hr.

My biggest problem at the moment is quite a stupid one, really. It's......feeling comfortable and being able to think clearly. Sometimes I experience periods in my play where I find it hard to concentrate and keep track of what's going on. During these periods, analysis that would normally take several seconds instead takes 5x longer and causes me to miss +EV moves.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:50 PM   #5175
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I've saved up 5k to play on my own (2-5, 500 max) after my backer dropped me, first real session is tonight, I have a full time job and will have 10k saved before I imagine variance can wipe out my BR, I have played similar level games for like a year under backer and I know basically the variance I am to expect, wish me luck!
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