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Old 05-28-2013, 04:36 PM   #5101
wheeldog00
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

good lord there are some Debbie downers here. I don't think you people understand what I mean by soft games. they stack off for 150BBs with AK on a KQ9 board, I bet 780 into 240 on a 4 flush board and get called. I make thousands each month in spots where I should only make a little with value bets. of coarse ill get sucked out on and coolered, but getting paid off huge with monsters makes up for it.

like I said, im considered by many to be the best 2/5 player in my room, and its a large room, all better players stick to 5/10 plo. when I talk to my friends who are good I don't think im better than them, just better at adjusting to bad players
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:39 PM   #5102
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Without online poker paying for TV ads the % of new players coming to the games isn't high. Honestly I think the # of games running at any time is down year over year in my city based on my feel for Bravo.

Plus the % of games which are "high stakes" is limited to very few locales. We're left to deal with the games that are available to us. A large % of the posters here are rec players/part-timers who have other jobs/families/obligations that make moving to LV, Cali, Florida, AC, etc. impossible.

And where else are US players supposed to play? Online is worthless, we don't have Stars or something reputable. Live is all most of us can play. And it's still quite beatable. If you think about it, making even $25/hr is pretty darn good for a hobby.

Poker is still just a niche thing in the US, the % of people in my town who probably have ever played poker in the casino is still extraordinarily low relative to the number of people who have played slots or blackjack. Realistically there are probably something like 2,000 people who comprise 98% of the player pool for our rooms. Of that group, probably 200-250 of them are responsible for something like 50% of the hands played in the market.

This isn't Vegas.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:41 PM   #5103
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by wheeldog00 View Post
when I talk to my friends who are good I don't think im better than them, just better at adjusting to bad players
What do you think being better means then, if that is not "better".
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:41 PM   #5104
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by The Rumor View Post
If you think about it, making even $25/hr is pretty darn good for a hobby.
+1

GeveryotherhobbyIhavelosesmemoneyG
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:45 PM   #5105
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What do you think being better means then, if that is not "better".
I think their style and way of playing will get them further in poker than mine will. they will be able to probably beat 50/100 games and ill be stuck beating up on the 2/5 idiots. im sure ill be playing 5/10, I just don't think my style will make me great at the nosebleeds and their style has that potential
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:51 PM   #5106
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You guys make the games in US sound awful, why would you even play there. Also isn't poker meant to be far more popular in the states why aren't there more non pros playing there?
I dunno,

everywhere I play 2/5nl at seems pretty damn soft and beatable.

I've played in CA, NM, AZ, and Vegas

You obviously got your good players and winning players and semi-pros... but there are more than enough fish, droolers and bad regs.

I think the term "solid" is one of the most overused terms in the casino in regards to so-called decent players. No. Most regs and even most winning regs have big holes and leaks in their games. They've custom built a style of poker that doesn't necessarily revolve around extracting max value, but rather around "not losing". Every single time I play, my table will be infested with so-called "solid" players all jawing on and on about "don't wanna be greedy... that's what you get for slowplaying... I hate getting my aces cracked that's why I raised so much... How could you call with that when I raised $35 pre (nevermind that we are 300bb deep) etc etc"

Imo, yes, fish and droolers and mouth breathers are great sources of profits. But to me, an equally big source of my profits come from prison raping so-called decent players. They often have no clue how to play deep and their custom built "not losing" strategy sets them up to make all kinds of mistakes, the biggest one being betting in such a way that the only had that calls them is a hand that beats them. That is based on their pathological fear of "not losing".

Anyways, just my random two cents.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:00 PM   #5107
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Yeah in my mind solid means making no significant mistakes, and losing value or not slowplaying is definitely a significant mistake. Mistake doesn't mean losing big pots or losing money, after all.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:17 PM   #5108
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I dunno,

everywhere I play 2/5nl at seems pretty damn soft and beatable.

I've played in CA, NM, AZ, and Vegas

You obviously got your good players and winning players and semi-pros... but there are more than enough fish, droolers and bad regs.

I think the term "solid" is one of the most overused terms in the casino in regards to so-called decent players. No. Most regs and even most winning regs have big holes and leaks in their games. They've custom built a style of poker that doesn't necessarily revolve around extracting max value, but rather around "not losing". Every single time I play, my table will be infested with so-called "solid" players all jawing on and on about "don't wanna be greedy... that's what you get for slowplaying... I hate getting my aces cracked that's why I raised so much... How could you call with that when I raised $35 pre (nevermind that we are 300bb deep) etc etc"

Imo, yes, fish and droolers and mouth breathers are great sources of profits. But to me, an equally big source of my profits come from prison raping so-called decent players. They often have no clue how to play deep and their custom built "not losing" strategy sets them up to make all kinds of mistakes, the biggest one being betting in such a way that the only had that calls them is a hand that beats them. That is based on their pathological fear of "not losing".

Anyways, just my random two cents.
couldn't agree more. theres about 20 players I don't like playing against bc they put me in tough spots where I have to call them down lighter since they are capable of making plays, but I feel most winning regs in my room are ridiculously bad. I like a mix of 2-3 really bad players, 2-3 bad regs who don't make plays, and 1-2 players that only play AA or KK to sit on my left
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:22 PM   #5109
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think everyone would be shocked if you could see true results for every player in your room. Despite the fact a reg is there day-in-day-out does not mean they win.

Honestly, try this exercise... give me the results at your game for any other player than yourself....

... hint - it is nearly impossible to track someone. While you are thinking "winning reg", it is more likely they are a "slightly losing reg" who doesn't even track themselves to realize it. Rake and tips are significant - there are far fewer profitable players in a room than most people think.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #5110
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I think everyone would be shocked if you could see true results for every player in your room. Despite the fact a reg is there day-in-day-out does not mean they win.

Honestly, try this exercise... give me the results at your game for any other player than yourself....

... hint - it is nearly impossible to track someone. While you are thinking "winning reg", it is more likely they are a "slightly losing reg" who doesn't even track themselves to realize it. Rake and tips are significant - there are far fewer profitable players in a room than most people think.
When you consider the rake and tips the majority of players in your room have to be losers.

That includes regs who play a lot, a fair amount of them are donators.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:27 PM   #5111
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bip!, here is a possible formula for small to medium size rooms.

There are a handful of players that can't afford to be losing players, young ones especially.

Assign a cash value to those guys and see how much money is left after subtracting those guys from a simple formula like:

average BI x average number of players x average hours of playing time.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:33 PM   #5112
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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THE STREAK IS OVER.

Just ended my longest ever 1/3 NL win streak: 15 sessions.

15-0 over 138.25 hours for $5,676.00 = $41.01/hr (13.67bb/hr).

The loss also ended my biggest ever upswing:

32-3 over 355.30 hours for $16,846.00 = $47.39/hr (15.80bb/hr).

GwouldrecommendsellingallstocksinGGasquicklyasposs ibleG

Wow GG congrats bro you're straight crushin!

How would you view your play during this upswing? Were you laggin it up? Standard ABC? How often were you bluffing and pulling off large bluffs? Would you attribute any of your success to abnormal run good or do you just think your reads were super sharp and you were almost always making the right play, or both? Were the games unusually soft during this time?

Sorry for all the questions but from your posts/threads I know you are a sharp player and I love picking sharp brains! Haha congrats tho man keep it up!
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:41 PM   #5113
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I would like to see more WR's posted with more than 1k hours.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #5114
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serio, then they aren't brags, so they won't be posted
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:55 PM   #5115
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by jsmo0th10 View Post
Wow GG congrats bro you're straight crushin!

How would you view your play during this upswing? Were you laggin it up? Standard ABC? How often were you bluffing and pulling off large bluffs? Would you attribute any of your success to abnormal run good or do you just think your reads were super sharp and you were almost always making the right play, or both? Were the games unusually soft during this time?

Sorry for all the questions but from your posts/threads I know you are a sharp player and I love picking sharp brains! Haha congrats tho man keep it up!
I think I overall mostly played fine, but obviously I made mistakes along the way.

I was definitely not lagging it up. If anything, I've become more loose/passive (get in a multiway pot for cheap, flop a hand, stack a moron).

I almost exclusively limited my bluffs to HU cbets after raising preflop (with some cbets mixed in on favourable boards 3way, and pretty much never cbetting air 4way+). Very rarely would I double barrel (had to have the right opponent and the right image and the right turn card). Very few 3barrel bluffs (if any?) or big river bluffs (there were a few, but I'm not even sure I made money on them to be honest since I got called sometimes).

My guess is that I ran good.

I think my game is pretty soft overall, so mediocre player + run good can have nice results.

Gleavingrightnowtothepokerroomtohopefullystartanot herrungoodstreakG
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:02 PM   #5116
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ya'll must seriously play in some horrid games if you think $50 an hour at 2/5 is some head in the clouds top player number.

I don't want to advertise more than wheeldog already has, but yea in Fl you can overvalue bet the absolute piss out of villains. If you ever see resistance fold. So the vanilla bet/fold strategy will seriously put you in the top 5% of players.

Like it seems so exploitable but even the "competent" villains are pretty bad. I'll post every hundred hours in here from now on, coming up on my first hundred of 2/5.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:11 PM   #5117
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I would like to see more WR's posted with more than 1k hours.
2408 hrs, $5.20/hr. Only $1/2 NLHE for these (small samples for other games). This is from July '08 until now. Most of the time is in pretty high rake games, 10% up to $6+$1bbj.

I feel like a complete scrub sometimes with that rate. But I sucked a good bit when I first started, then I recently went on a pretty epic downswing while trying to loosen up my game (nearly 20 BI, just like BRM suggests).
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:12 PM   #5118
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[/IMG]
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:15 PM   #5119
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Here's my 2-5 results..previous pic is my Year to Date.





$100k/year is doable in my room, and I will get there
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:20 PM   #5120
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Especially if your game isn't capped at 100bb.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:28 PM   #5121
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I had +10k months in 3/5 200-500 and standard deviation is half of yours in those months.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:39 PM   #5122
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I think everyone would be shocked if you could see true results for every player in your room. Despite the fact a reg is there day-in-day-out does not mean they win.
I could count on my hands the # of people in my player pool that actually track their results with a poker tracker app or website... In fact, I would do a prop bet that you could go up to any Ten "regs" at a casino and ask them if they track their results and I would bet that not only do 4 out of 5 don't track their results, but I'd go on to bet that 4 out of 5 don't even know there are websites or poker apps that allow you to track your results...

and the # of regs that actively "work" on their game are easily 50% of the regs that track their results.

My favorite thing is sitting at a table listening to someone ask about a poker book and then several "solid" players go on to explain how poker books, websites, training videos, podcasts, online poker, etc etc are all useless and that they figured out the game all by themselves using their vast years of experience...
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:50 PM   #5123
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My favorite thing is sitting at a table listening to someone ask about a poker book and then several "solid" players go on to explain how poker books, websites, training videos, podcasts, online poker, etc etc are all useless and that they figured out the game all by themselves using their vast years of experience...
Do you not? Seems like a great way to troll people with bad advice.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:07 PM   #5124
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and the # of regs that actively "work" on their game are easily 50% of the regs that track their results.
giving waaay to much credit here brotha...think the number is significantly lower
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:26 PM   #5125
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No way, I think like 95%+ of regs in my games know about tracking software and about 30% of them use one (I see them use them) Literally 19/20 would know about them I think, and quite a few track. I know personally of 10+ regs who track and there isn't that big a reg pool.

Seriously, I think you guys define regs way too loosely if they include donating whales. Those are regular fish, not regs.
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