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Old 04-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #4826
bwslim69
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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For those of you that regularly make the trip to the wsop every year What percentage of your bankrolls do usually bring out to grind with? Or do you just bring the lot?
I usually carry 10k to the series though I play several mtts each year too. Had years where I had to make a morning run to BOA and years where I have had a lot more cash on me flying home than I feel comfortable with. Fwiw I usually play 2/5 PLO and 2/5 or 5/10 nl while at series.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:12 AM   #4827
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Today brought a real obvious game selection leak to my attention... my worst results have happened between noon-5pm. Don't see myself putting in an early session for a good while
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:28 AM   #4828
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Why is it your worst hours? Perhaps the lack of action magnifies your leaks?
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:08 AM   #4829
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Something like that. I typically run into trouble barreling too much and opening too wide too often from CO/BTN, because I think the game's tighter, only to find out my villains flopped the nuts and decided to check/call the whole way.

My turn play has just been atrocious of late in general. I'm betting when I should be pot controlling, I'm checking back when a double barrel would have won it... I can't guess correctly. My brain needs a few days off, today was my first D-game session in 4 months.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:48 AM   #4830
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Today brought a real obvious game selection leak to my attention... my worst results have happened between noon-5pm. Don't see myself putting in an early session for a good while
yeah I haven't played an early session in a long long time.

I do notice whenever I get to the room in the evening though there's one mega grinder who's almost always sitting on 3k-5k (table max is 1.5). Dude's playing on his tablet the whole time just waiting for cards.

So I guess there is money to be made early but you gotta be a professional grinder to get it. And grinding takes as much skill as whatever you want to call not-grinding, if it were that easy everyone would do it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:43 AM   #4831
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Currently running like god...had 4c6c on a 57Q two spade flop on button, BB bets 15, CO calls, I call, bink a nonspade 8 which gives CO's 78 two pair, get all in running twice, win both. Although he and I did get all in preflop for 44 apiece, I with AQ and he with A7, ran it twice, he hit a 7 both times.

In BB with KK, raise it to 18, EP and LP call, flop 994, get all in with EP for 165, who has J9, I river the K.

Have 44 on 45J flop with 25 pot, turn T river 5, and along the way manage to get AQ to put in $57, he even called 25 on the river.

+550 for the night.

Oh, and I randomly found 360 in the pocket of the pants I put on today. Only poker players, right? Lolawesomeday
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:28 PM   #4832
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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yeah I haven't played an early session in a long long time.

I do notice whenever I get to the room in the evening though there's one mega grinder who's almost always sitting on 3k-5k (table max is 1.5). Dude's playing on his tablet the whole time just waiting for cards.

So I guess there is money to be made early but you gotta be a professional grinder to get it. And grinding takes as much skill as whatever you want to call not-grinding, if it were that easy everyone would do it.
Yeah, I suspect my leak is opening my game up too much in the daytime. I have no problem playing tight and grinding out the night games. I suspect that loose and bluffy isn't the right way to go in the day games.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:30 PM   #4833
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Yeah, I suspect my leak is opening my game up too much in the daytime. I have no problem playing tight and grinding out the night games. I suspect that loose and bluffy isn't the right way to go in the day games.
It is and it isn't. You have to pump the brakes and keep in control, but you do have to hit the gas a little more. Most llsnl villains go into calldown mode once they think you're loose, so you have to recognize when that happens and shift gears.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:31 AM   #4834
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Another win, 214 last night. I should've left with 150 more than I did, but when the game dwindled to 3 players, I let myself get caught up in a button straddling frenzy. All three of us straddled the button every time, so there was $7 in the pot before any non-blind bets...and I didn't properly adjust to 3-player action.

One hand, I raised AsJs on the button after SB and BB limped, 15 on top of the straddle. SB called, BB folded. SB checked flop in dark, flop K96 two diamonds, I checked. Turn 6, SB bet 20, I folded. Atrocious play 3-handed, and I lost 80 dollars in 20 minutes playing like that, getting sucked into the whirlwind but never really being willing to pull the trigger myself.

Hopefully I've learned a lesson.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:43 AM   #4835
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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20 buyins is good if each buyin is 100bb and you have 6 months of expenses saved too.
How many buyins do you think you need for a 200xbb game?
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:20 AM   #4836
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I generally think that 2000bb poker roll is sufficient for low-stakes no limit up to 2/5 NL.

Basically, a 10k poker bankroll is fine for 2/5 NL regardless if deep buy-ins. More than 10k is necessary if the 2/5 NL game is frequently straddled (playing more like 2/5/10 NL instead of 2/5 NL).

Unless you play a LAG style where 200bbs go in frequently, I don't think that having 10 buy-ins of 200bb is much different than having 20 buy-ins of 100bbs. Often, a good player can reduce variance by buying in deeper because he is less likely to lose 100bbs with medium strength hands hands when he is sitting with a 200bb stack.

Regardless, 2000bb is a large enough poker roll for a solidly winning 2/5 NL grinder.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:05 AM   #4837
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What about 5/10 when most buy in 200bb?
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:18 AM   #4838
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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What about 5/10 when most buy in 200bb?
You aren't required to play 200 bb deep...I think a bit bigger is required to play 5/10 just due to the generally more aggro nature of 5/10. I play 5/10 shorter but I have a "real" job so BRM not as much of an issue for me.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #4839
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

yeah 5/T is often times much tougher than 2/5 so I'd say you'd want a roll magnitudes larger (2x to 3x larger than what you'd want for 2/5).
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:25 AM   #4840
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What about the case of the game all filled with 3/5 donks?
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:31 AM   #4841
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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yeah 5/T is often times much tougher than 2/5 so I'd say you'd want a roll magnitudes larger (2x to 3x larger than what you'd want for 2/5).
Think this is right

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What about the case of the game all filled with 3/5 donks?
Still playing bigger stakes so you certainly need a bigger roll.

I do think shot taking is a very underrated learning tool. I think it was Galfond (though I think I have that wrong) who says that if he had it to do all over again he would be even more aggressive with his shot taking. I see friends all the time that were better than me in 1/2 days 2 or 3 years ago still playing there. Now they come up to 2/5 or 5/10 and try and play the same way they did at lower stakes and get murdered.

If the line up looks good, take 2 or 3 buy ins and take a shot. At worst it is a HUGE learning tool IMO.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:37 AM   #4842
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Well naturally the roll needs to be bigger in the absolute sense. I was asking whether 20BI is sufficient in such game.

I am not concerned of my skill level relative to these players, just the variance aspect. If most of these players are buying in 200bb, I feel that the variance would be higher for me at 100bb.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:58 AM   #4843
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

So I have finally made graph, and it is almost, but not quite, the format I'm looking for.

http://i.imgur.com/l1eNz9D.png

What I really want, instead of merely changing the x-axis *labels* to being the hour counts, is to make the x-axis *itself* the hour counts, so that instead of a 5 hour session being the same length on the x-axis as as 1-hour session, it would take up 5 times as much space on the x-axis. As far as I know, I can't do this in excel.

The graph as it stands looks quite a bit less dramatic than the actual data. I've been totally running a hot streak lately, combined with playing stronger.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:11 AM   #4844
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by corlath View Post
So I have finally made graph, and it is almost, but not quite, the format I'm looking for.

http://i.imgur.com/l1eNz9D.png

What I really want, instead of merely changing the x-axis *labels* to being the hour counts, is to make the x-axis *itself* the hour counts, so that instead of a 5 hour session being the same length on the x-axis as as 1-hour session, it would take up 5 times as much space on the x-axis. As far as I know, I can't do this in excel.

The graph as it stands looks quite a bit less dramatic than the actual data. I've been totally running a hot streak lately, combined with playing stronger.
Sure you can.

I'm going to assume that you have a column with "hours played" in each session, and a column with "$won/lost" right?

Make a new column with the running total of hours played to date. First row is just the hours played in that session, each subsequent row is the hours played in that session + the entry in the row above. Plot cumulative winnings vs cumulative hours played.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:24 AM   #4845
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Sure you can.

I'm going to assume that you have a column with "hours played" in each session, and a column with "$won/lost" right?

Make a new column with the running total of hours played to date. First row is just the hours played in that session, each subsequent row is the hours played in that session + the entry in the row above. Plot cumulative winnings vs cumulative hours played.
I already did that-- if you look at my graph, the hours listed on the x-axis are cumulative. However, the distances on the x-axis are still based on sessions, not hours. There appears to be no way to make the *dimension* of the x-axis dependent on data as opposed to the number of entries.

[edit] I figured it out! The answer is to NOT make a "line graph" but to make an "XY scatter" graph with connecting lines. And it has some pretty kickass options for style! I love the graph now:

http://i.imgur.com/sAfLHpS.png

Last edited by corlath; 04-24-2013 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:24 PM   #4846
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey all,

I'm pretty new to the site, trying to make my way as a part time grinder. Ive decided to take a break from Tourneys since they have been a leak from my roll (there are infinite amount to play live in California) and I can't afford to play the 100-300 buy ins regularly.

My plan is to play 2/3 consistently, and take some shots at tourneys here and there when the roll is healthier.

I've allotted a 4k starter roll and I'd like some thoughts on this:

I want to play twice a week at Hollywood Park at the 2/3 for 100, about 3-5 hours per session.

On Sundays I want to go to the Bicycle to sit deep at the 2/3 with 300 and play all day or until I churn a decent profit (200+)

If I lose consistently for the first 2 weeks (6 sessions) then I'll be down 1k and would need to take a break/re-evaluate my play.

I've been working out a lot of kinks, reading, forums, and I've decided to take the grind seriously this time instead of spazzing at different higher level tables (200 and 500) and playing scared money each time since I'm underolled for them.

Any thoughts/ advice on this gameplan would be appreciated.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:28 PM   #4847
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Just win and you'll be fine.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:30 PM   #4848
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$4k is plenty for a casual winning player, but I think your biggest question right now is probably whether you're a winning player.
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:53 PM   #4849
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

$100 for 2/3 seems like it can't be very profitable. Don't underestimate the effect of rake at low stakes.

If that's the max buyin I would avoid that game completely.

Also bankrolls are for winners. If you don't have enough data to know if you win or not, use a budget instead.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:11 PM   #4850
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

How many hours do you need live to figure out whether you're a winner? Assume 25 hands per hour average. At 176 hours that would put me at 4400 hands. I know that the more you're winning, the more you can reliably say that you are a winner in general, even if the current winrate is not "correct".

[edit] lol in b4 somebody says "I think there's a thread on that" and links me to this thread.
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