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Old 02-03-2011, 01:01 AM   #451
KurtSF
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

If you don have the patience to save up to $2000, just save up to $500 and hit the felt. Buy in full and play your best. Do that 4 times and you should run good once at least (hopefully) and you'll be on your way! It's essentially the same thing BRM-wise, but you can hit the tables sooner.

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Old 02-03-2011, 01:17 AM   #452
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

I've played with my whole roll on the table a couple of times. Once when just starting out, and I basically didn't have a roll, but an entertainment budget and was playing 1/2 cause it was the lowest game going... and once when I could not resist a juicy game way above my roll (bought in for 70BBs with my entire roll). The first was no worries, even though I lost my "roll" the first time. The second was terrifying. Esp when I ended up AI deep after building up a stack over 170bbs. When I won that flip (thank god) I really started studying poker and realized my mistake. (it's also what made me find 2+2)

My advice, it's ok to play under-rolled if it is not a big deal to lose it all and save up again. It is *horrible* to play under-rolled if going busto again is a terrifying process. I would advise considering yourself a rec player for a while, and play as a req A) after you can save up a couple of buy-ins and B) Until you get your roll back up to 10BI, after which you can consider yourself a *real* player before, and treat your roll with proper respect.

If you want to really reduce variance, see if there's a 2/4 or 3/6 limit game around without an obscene rake, and use it to build your roll back up. 3/6 did the job for me after my first, ill-advised and WSOP tv coverage-driven try at NL.
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:47 AM   #453
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

If you have income from sources outside of poker,
I wouldn't worry about it.
Don't listen to the BR nits.
The BR stuff applys mostly when poker is your only income, IMO.
If you are a favorite in the game, you should play if you can afford the risk, like your not playing w the rent.

If you're a winning player it's like having a gold claim,
you go and get the gold out, but you need some tools to do it.

Just cuz you are undergunned on tools, doesn't mean you can't get the gold, it's just gonna be harder to do; but u can do it.

You need to play good, but you really need to run good too.

Don't trip abut going busto, it's a point of honor,
I should know, I'm the mayor of bustoville.
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:58 AM   #454
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

I have had this same conversation with a friend recently, and based on what I know of the type of games you are playing in, I would aim for 4-5 BIs. That number shouldn't take you long to achieve, and will likely give you enough room to play your best, yet also keep you from trailing into FPS territory. Having $800-$1k behind should keep you from playing scared, and at the same time force you to play patient, disciplined poker.
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:03 AM   #455
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

You want at least $3000 to play 1/2.
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:04 AM   #456
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

BRM is for people who don't have getting another job as a viable option, if you can replenish your roll from other sources theres no need to save up, going in 10 times with $200 is the same as going in once with $2000, probably better since you'd lose a lot of value waiting to earn $2000.

Obviously, if you were quitting your job, you'd probably have to save up around $5k atleast.

My opinion, atleast.
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:44 AM   #457
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

I used the 'bring a buy in' method starting in January and I now have €2k and barring a catastrophic downswing I'll be at my €4K - 20 Buy ins target within a coupla months and begin to experiment with exploitating my 'rock' image against the regs and see how it goes.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:38 AM   #458
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

not being my usual facetious self here, believe it or not, but I recommend going busto at least several more times.
good or bad, i think you'll agree that it makes you reevaluate your game if nothing else; and thats a good thing.

just be glad you're not paying your expenses out of your roll.

what's the worst thing about going busto, and this should be obvious?

Spoiler:
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:56 AM   #459
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

Every player has went busto don't be embarrassed. I have went busto twice in the last year.

First make sure your preparation and game plan are solid. That means breaking down your whole game. Construct ranges for all situations. Once you have done that. Come up with a backup plan for your game. That means a whole different style then you normally play. You need to be versatile on the felt just in case. If you prepare for anything and everything. You will always be prepared.

Second, I wouldn't save up a roll then play. You want to at least take 2 buyins. Then try to build a roll from that.

Third play like your in a tournament. I know your like wtf? But just remember its just an approach. It worked for me, I knew I couldn't rebuy. Made me play harder and more patient. LLSNL players don't bluff so always pay attention to aggression.

Fourth, when your playing under rolled. Don't be scared money. Make sure you think your dicisions outloud in your head. Be proud of your play, if you get sucked out on. Just shake it off and keep trying at a later date.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:58 AM   #460
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

My advice would be to avoid the raked underground games. Since you're in college, there should be a number of home games available in dorms, apartments, fraternities, etc. It can take a little bit of work to seek these out, but it's generally worthwhile since a majority of the games will be pretty soft. Plus the stakes will be lower so you don't need much of a roll to get back into playing.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:04 AM   #461
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

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Originally Posted by yodachoda View Post
You want at least $3000 to play 1/2.
I was thinking more on the line of 6K. 20 buy ins of 300.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:20 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by AtlanticCityPro View Post
I was thinking more on the line of 6K. 20 buy ins of 300.
If you have 6k and still playing 1/2 or 1/3 your just scared money.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:45 AM   #463
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

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Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks View Post
If you have 6k and still playing 1/2 or 1/3 your just scared money.
I totally disagree with this. I started w, 5k in november and ran it up north of 15k all at 1/2 and I'm not even considering moving up yet.
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Old 02-03-2011, 12:35 PM   #464
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

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Originally Posted by patchohare View Post
I totally disagree with this. I started w, 5k in november and ran it up north of 15k all at 1/2 and I'm not even considering moving up yet.
Just my 2 cents. If you got up to 15K you need to at least shot some 2/5. If not, even some 5/10. Not make it your regular game, just say take some shots. 15K is waaaay over rolled for 1/2 and if you are a solid you are losing money staying at those stakes. Make it to 2/5 ASAP.
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:33 PM   #465
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Re: Working back from BustoVille

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks View Post
Every player has went busto don't be embarrassed. I have went busto twice in the last year.

First make sure your preparation and game plan are solid. That means breaking down your whole game. Construct ranges for all situations. Once you have done that. Come up with a backup plan for your game. That means a whole different style then you normally play. You need to be versatile on the felt just in case. If you prepare for anything and everything. You will always be prepared.

Second, I wouldn't save up a roll then play. You want to at least take 2 buyins. Then try to build a roll from that.

Third play like your in a tournament. I know your like wtf? But just remember its just an approach. It worked for me, I knew I couldn't rebuy. Made me play harder and more patient. LLSNL players don't bluff so always pay attention to aggression.

Fourth, when your playing under rolled. Don't be scared money. Make sure you think your dicisions outloud in your head. Be proud of your play, if you get sucked out on. Just shake it off and keep trying at a later date.
Not every player goes busto. This is potentially very dangerous advice.

If your trying to make money.. changing your style because of your BR constraints sounds like a bad idea.

Some people can't help being scared money when they are underrolled. Trying to pretend your not scared money when your scared money isn't going to work very well... unless you are some sort of strange self-delusional character.
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:45 PM   #466
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Play like your in a tournament?!?

Care to explain this comment
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:31 PM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry View Post
Not every player goes busto. This is potentially very dangerous advice.

If your trying to make money.. changing your style because of your BR constraints sounds like a bad idea.

Some people can't help being scared money when they are underrolled. Trying to pretend your not scared money when your scared money isn't going to work very well... unless you are some sort of strange self-delusional character.
Last time I checked you only can buy in for 1 buyin at a time.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:34 PM   #468
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Play like your in a tournament?!?

Care to explain this comment
It means play as if you can't buyin anymore.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:02 PM   #469
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Question live bankroll requirement for 1/2 and 2/5 live?

how much would someone need to play each exclusively and respectively?
also what are some of the differences and players in each stake? Thanks
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:04 PM   #470
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Re: live bankroll requirement for 1/2 and 2/5 live?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PotControl View Post
how much would someone need to play each exclusively and respectively?
also what are some of the differences and players in each stake? Thanks
If losing player, then unlimited. if top winner, then $10k for 2/5. If routine reg type winning routine or marginal winrates, then $20k - $25k for 2/5.
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:12 PM   #471
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Re: live bankroll requirement for 1/2 and 2/5 live?

it really depends on your style of play.

if you've never played 2/5 before, i'd wait until you have at least 20 2/5 buy ins then start taking shots here and there. i wouldn't fully move up until maybe 40 buy ins. if you drop back down to 20 buy ins, then move down again.

i look at 1/2 like the starting limit. so basically get yourself 5 buy ins and start grinding.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:55 PM   #472
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Re: live bankroll requirement for 1/2 and 2/5 live?

i like 20 buy ins as a rule of thumb, in atlantic city the max is 300. so that would be 6k for 1/2. and 10k for 2/5
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:42 PM   #473
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Picked a win-rate of 8bb/100, and a variance of 80bb/100. Simulated 10 trials of 10,000 hands.

In two of the ten trials, hero goes down ~5 buyins.

In one of the ten trials, hero goes down ~7.5 buyins.

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Old 02-03-2011, 07:43 PM   #474
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Re: live bankroll requirement for 1/2 and 2/5 live?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlanticCityPro View Post
i like 20 buy ins as a rule of thumb, in atlantic city the max is 300. so that would be 6k for 1/2. and 10k for 2/5
rule of thumb... sounds more like a rule or wrist. 1/2 what you quote is sufficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit View Post
If losing player, then unlimited. if top winner, then $10k for 2/5. If routine reg type winning routine or marginal winrates, then $20k - $25k for 2/5.
If youre talking a segregated bankroll, this is beyond absurd.

if you go down 10K playing 2/5 you either suck at game selection or you suck at poker. it isnt a bankroll issue.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:48 PM   #475
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Azula View Post
Picked a win-rate of 8bb/100, and a variance of 80bb/100. Simulated 10 trials of 10,000 hands.
just wondering where you got the number.
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