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Old 04-08-2013, 09:56 AM   #4676
11t
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

People sometimes complain that they can't tell who they should listen to and who gives good advice. If you can't tell who gives good advice, you aren't ready to hear it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #4677
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You don't need 4k to take shots at 1/2. But playing 20 hrs a month as hobby does need 500-600bb. Minimum. Really hard to beat 1/2 on scared money. 71 hrs isn't large sample size, but I would definitely take pause in continuing to play, unless you can find your leaks or get on table and can identify where the fish are and how to extract money from them.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:15 PM   #4678
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Wow. I see a whole bunch of advice here, definitely wasn't expecting that much.

Some bullet points:

-My liferoll of $2k is completely separate from my rainy day fund, so I do have a bit of a fallback. This is actually the largest my liferoll has ever been.

-I'm almost through re-reading HOCG V1, and also have V2. When finished with those, I was told on here that books by Ed Miller are particularly good, so I'm going to check his books out. I said I think I'm a winner even though the sample size says otherwise, but I may not be. Either way, I gotta get better and I accept that.

-I have about 4-5 months before going back to school, and when I do I'll be in it for another 2+ years at minimum.

-I almost never drink or spend money on alcohol. Don't see much of a point in that stuff except for on rare occasion.

-It's very difficult to deposit money online since I'm in the US and even harder to withdraw if I win (when I win). Otherwise, I'd do that in a heartbeat in place of live poker since it's far less risk (unless others know of an easy way in and out).

Thanks for all the response by the way!
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:48 PM   #4679
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Oh snapz just play everytime you have a full buy in to play with. And keep it seperate when you win. Loosing $5-600 is nothing. Im usually in the game that much in the first 30 minutes.

For sure tighten your range untill you have like 8 buy ins though. And keep studying.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:33 PM   #4680
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah View Post
Wow. I see a whole bunch of advice here, definitely wasn't expecting that much.

Some bullet points:

-My liferoll of $2k is completely separate from my rainy day fund, so I do have a bit of a fallback. This is actually the largest my liferoll has ever been.

-I have about 4-5 months before going back to school, and when I do I'll be in it for another 2+ years at minimum.

Thanks for all the response by the way!
Just hitting the meaningful point here: If your liferoll is 2,000, and you are about to head back to school you can't afford to play poker for real money. $2,000 is nothing. My last car repair was $1,600. I think you really need to get this up to closer to $5,000. And that's for someone with no dependents who lives at home.

I'd advise finding some friends and playing some $5 or $10 buy-in games for fun. Have an evening of fun for the cost of a movie ticket.

Also, I don't know where you live, but at least where I live you could do better than $9/hr for a part-time job if you're willing to work. Go wait some tables at Olive Garden and you'll make more than that.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #4681
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I am currently in England and have played in a local casino that spreads a 50p/50p game max buyin is 100 pounds (200bb), min buyin 20 pounds (sorry I have a U.S. computer and cant figure out how to make a pound symbol).

The rake is 10% 6 pounds max.

Because of the good structure effective stacks are usually fairly deep in fact the other week when I played no one had under a 100bb. It is a soft game, rarely gets nitty and it is also very rare to see more than one or two even semi competent players

My question predictably is: Is this game beatable ?

The other nl game they spread is a 1/1 200bb max with the same rake but doesnt play as deep as people tend to buy in shorter, and although this game is also soft Its noticeably less soft than the smaller game.

As a side note I like the smaller game because its less stressful (In the 50/50 game I know "where im at" near 100% of the time or thats how it seems ) but I dont want to play in it if it is clearly unbeatable.

Oh and nobody tips !! I would say you see a dealer get tipped on average about once evrery 3 hours. I was talking about it with a dealer and he said the tips all get pooled together and split between every member of staff in the casino and the tax comes out before they even get it at the end of the week
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:16 PM   #4682
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Originally Posted by The Rumor View Post
Just hitting the meaningful point here: If your liferoll is 2,000, and you are about to head back to school you can't afford to play poker for real money. $2,000 is nothing. My last car repair was $1,600. I think you really need to get this up to closer to $5,000. And that's for someone with no dependents who lives at home.

I'd advise finding some friends and playing some $5 or $10 buy-in games for fun. Have an evening of fun for the cost of a movie ticket.

Also, I don't know where you live, but at least where I live you could do better than $9/hr for a part-time job if you're willing to work. Go wait some tables at Olive Garden and you'll make more than that.
I am headed back to school. My school situation is such so that I still live at home with my mom. My financial aid for school pays for a lot, and I'm not too concerned about loans since a lot of them will be covered by the state once I start my teaching career. And my friends kinda suck at poker, I don't want to take money away from them.

I know I could do better, but the job I'm at is fairly flexible. I get some health insurance, I have two weeks paid vacation, I got a promotion of sorts that looks really good on resumes. I've also been there almost 3 years and continuity looks good on resumes as well. I can name my hours pretty much. The pay sucks, but everything else is fairly cushy for a part-time job. Another year and a half and I'll be at $10/hour.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:44 PM   #4683
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey guys I remembered how to win.

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Old 04-10-2013, 02:03 PM   #4684
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Hey guys I remembered how to win.
Am I understanding this right...That's $70K over 300 hours?

What are your main games in that sample?

How long did it take to rack up this 300 hours?

And what happened around 280 hours lol.
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:30 PM   #4685
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Not hours, sessions, and it's pounds. That's just since I tracked on this tracker though.

EPT London happened is what happened. 25/50 HU vs french fish is always what happened.

Sample right here is about 1000 hours. As you can see hourly is not that impressive. I've got a lot of 1/2 hours there.
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #4686
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Ahhh gotcha. "Session Chart". Ill try and read titles next time

I was thinking JFC that's insane.

It's still pretty sick, I am jelly for sure. So did you start at 1/2 and work up all within this 1000 hours?
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:46 PM   #4687
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Eh, kinda I guess, but not really. It's just 1/2 games were all that I had near where I lived, until I started taking trips to London. I still have lots of 1/2 and 1/3 samples in between. I'm a real grinder. Lost an 8k pot one day and went to play 1/1 when game broke, heh.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:21 AM   #4688
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Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah View Post
I have a question about finances and the like.

I'm a 22 year old kid (kinda kid) who wants to play poker as a side income since I just get that feeling playing poker that's undescribable. It's a cool feeling. I have an Associate's degree and am going back to college in the fall to become a high school math teacher. I also have a part time job making $9/hour (work 6 days a week, 30-35 hours a week) which will go to about $9.50/hour in a couple months. (I know it's a crappy job, but it's until I graduate college. I also just got a small promotion that will look more impressive than it actually is on job resumes, so stick with it). As you guys have known, I am trying to learn and post and read books and the like to improve my game.

I took some shots at live 1/2 as it was my first ventures into live poker, and it's gone fairly bad. I've played 71.5 hours since February 15th and lost at a rate of -$8.91/hour. To be fair, there have been some bad beats (KK< 34 on a J37 flop) but there has also been some spots where I played not optimally (not cbetting KJ on a Jxx board when shortstacked in position after iso-raising). And I know I'm not a loser at 1/2. But I know I can get worlds better.

Here's my question. My BR (lolBR) trickled down to $90 after 3 brutal sessions in a row (I even tried shortstacking; I hate shortstacking even more now with a passion of a hundred burning Rigels). I have a $2,000 liferoll and I'm willing to take out up to $200 from my savings. I'm also a financial nit and rarely spend huge chunks of money for anything. I also like having a decent amount set aside for rainy days (my car has had a bunch of rainy days the last couple of years). My monthly expenses are about $400/month (I don't have rent) and I make roughly $750-800/month after taxes and putting 20% of each paycheck into savings. How much would you guys consider transferring to my BR from my liferoll, if any? And would you guys play shortstacked and build up or just play full stacked?
I decided to just try online despite in the US. I can deposit $200 fairly easily and run that up while maintaining my life roll and playing more hands. And if, for some reason, online poker gets completely shut down in the next year or so, I can part with the $200 knowing that I could have lost a lot more quicker if I used my liferoll to fund live BR.

Hopefully I can grind the $200 up to $2000 or even more and then fund my live roll that way while feeling as financially secure as a kid in college can feel.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:33 AM   #4689
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Sol Reader View Post
Eh, kinda I guess, but not really. It's just 1/2 games were all that I had near where I lived, until I started taking trips to London. I still have lots of 1/2 and 1/3 samples in between. I'm a real grinder. Lost an 8k pot one day and went to play 1/1 when game broke, heh.
now that's grinding
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:47 AM   #4690
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Hey guys I remembered how to win.

Omg, what a gross break-even stretch from sessions ~118 thru ~305 (i.e 2/3 of your session total). Lol, I guess this is what I should be looking forward to?

Gsofarmygraphdoesn'thaveanyofthose,youknow,"downwa rdthingys"G
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:50 AM   #4691
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

i play 2/5 in a room where I feel people pay off in many situations where they shouldn't. instead of value-betting 100 into 140, I can shove 400-700 against many opponents with the nuts and get called. a lot of times I expect to see two pair or the 2nd nut flush and they show up with one pair where I should never get a call. does anyone else play in rooms like this and have a winrate over a long period of time? I feel one could make above and beyond the conventional 40-50 an hour with players such as these. over the last 350 hours im making around 80 an hour but until my hours get up to around 1500 I just don't have a good idea if its sustainable, but the way the play is at this room 65-85 seems more than possible
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:57 AM   #4692
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gobbledy: I know you have been around the block - but the answer is yes if you are really asking...crazy crazy things happen even when you have a HUGE edge on the game. Over my last 300 hours I am up a fraction of what I believe my ev to be. It is funny b/c I am still winning at a very good clip but coolers and suck outs just get old and at the end of the day I just want my manies
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:01 PM   #4693
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wheeldog: Yep - the benchmark of 50 is generally for vegas games. I have several buds that win in the 50's in these games. If you live in the hinterlands where NLH is reasonably new and people are making MASSIVE mistakes the ceiling can obv be much higher. Embrace it and CRANK out the hours...this will NOT last forever. Congrats on having such a game - your job now is to pound it for the next 24 months and see how much you can remove...looking foreword to hearing some insane numbers from you sir!!
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:09 PM   #4694
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gobbledy: I know you have been around the block - but the answer is yes if you are really asking...crazy crazy things happen even when you have a HUGE edge on the game. Over my last 300 hours I am up a fraction of what I believe my ev to be. It is funny b/c I am still winning at a very good clip but coolers and suck outs just get old and at the end of the day I just want my manies
I've had great results so far for the year and over the past ~20 or 25 sessions have been running break-even and it feels like I lost a million dollars. It's been unreal how many 95/5, 90/10, 80/20, 70/30, 65/35 hands I've gotten all-in and lost, along with the standard QQ vs KK or KK vs AA coolers. Winning even one or two of those pots would still look like a pretty good month, while losing almost all of them is really frustrating.

All of these are from my past 5 sessions:

A5 vs 45 AI on T55 flop, turn 4. $500 pot.
TT vs AJ on AJT5 board AI on turn, river J. $700 pot.
57 vs A8 on 567 flop AI on flop, 9 on turn. $900 pot.
AQ vs K9 AI preflop, flop K99. $700 pot.
QQ vs slow-played KK on 88T85 board. $900 pot.
KK vs slow-played AA on QJ925 board. $700 pot.


I know variance will swing it the other way eventually, but still....frustrating.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #4695
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wheeldog: Yep - the benchmark of 50 is generally for vegas games. I have several buds that win in the 50's in these games. If you live in the hinterlands where NLH is reasonably new and people are making MASSIVE mistakes the ceiling can obv be much higher. Embrace it and CRANK out the hours...this will NOT last forever. Congrats on having such a game - your job now is to pound it for the next 24 months and see how much you can remove...looking foreword to hearing some insane numbers from you sir!!
cool, that's what I was thinking. ive had a lot of friends and dealers tell me I would hate the games in vegas bc its nothing like the games here. im trying to play 80 hours a week temporarily to get the br up but 65 might be more realistic. I don't mind the hours, I enjoy it. it isn't that no limit is new here, its just people would rather gamble than play poker. I figured if you can make 50 an hour in tight vegas games, 80 an hour in these games is reasonable
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:51 PM   #4696
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80/hr at 80 hours per week?

You're setting up for failure.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:57 PM   #4697
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80/hr at 80 hours per week?

You're setting up for failure.
80 hr/week was just the goal for april to get the br up, but its lookin more like 65. was gonna go down to around 50 a week in may, and I think that's sustainable. like I said I enjoy playing
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:59 PM   #4698
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you wont for long
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:09 PM   #4699
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you wont for long
Yes he will. I guessed he was in FL b4 I saw his tag. Seriously I was typing "play in fl do we?" as a joke but then saw yes he actually does.

The games are exactly as he describes.

I shoved $300 into a $80 pot this past weekend on A71036 got snapped by A2o. I had 89 FWIW.

EDIT: ahhh, did you mean he won't enjoy playing for long? Yea I can def see that.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:15 PM   #4700
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Originally Posted by squid face View Post
gobbledy: I know you have been around the block - but the answer is yes if you are really asking...crazy crazy things happen even when you have a HUGE edge on the game. Over my last 300 hours I am up a fraction of what I believe my ev to be. It is funny b/c I am still winning at a very good clip but coolers and suck outs just get old and at the end of the day I just want my manies
Just really gross to think about, especially for a once-a-week rec player like myself. I'm currently on a 26-3 session streak and my brain is having a hard time admitting it's even possible to lose a single session, let alone go on a sick breakeven stretch like a much better player like Sol just did. Yuck.

Gthat'sright,I'vebooked3losingsessioninmylastSIXMO NTHS;I'mnotsureIcouldmentallyhandletheoppositeG
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