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Old 04-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #4651
BookToMarket
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Was last weekend potentially the best weekend for live poker all year?

I ask because when I played on Friday night I've never seen so many terrible players in my life. People at my tables had no idea what they were doing and seemed perfectly content with losing everything in front of them. I know this sounds fairly normal for live poker, but this just seemed more so than usual.

My assumption that it may have been the best weekend of the year was bc it was:
a) last weekend of the month. errybody got paid.
b) people are getting tax refunds and blowing their checks at the casino

If there is a better weekend during the year I'd like to know when and why people think it's better. All I know is that I wish I hadn't made plans last Saturday or else I probably would have just spent all weekend at the casino.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:20 PM   #4652
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Tax season is always good every weekend. Not just one weekend. Feb/March/april are great poker months. Always have and always will be like that.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:34 PM   #4653
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Tax season is always good every weekend. Not just one weekend. Feb/March/april are great poker months. Always have and always will be like that.
So it should continue through April and then die down in May?
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:59 PM   #4654
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Tax season is over April 12. All the degens did their taxes already. So the rush is almost over.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:06 PM   #4655
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I would think the degen way to do your taxes would be on the 15th at the deadline.

But i guess we only care about people getting refunds, and they probably do file early.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:29 AM   #4656
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yea, I wait until the last minute every year because I know I am never going to get a refund. That and I am lazy.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:10 AM   #4657
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Had 2 mediocre loosing sessions followed yday by a pretty brutal session -6 buy ins, got my money in good 5/6 times 2 outtered 3 times blah blah. Previously I had a 3 buy in stop loss but this game had some absolute stars (sticking in 1.5k on a Q92 flop with J8off ect) so I fought for a bit longer, played well but drowned. Do u guys usually just get right back to the felt after a big loosing few days or take a day/days off? Play elsewhere for a few days? Study instead of play? Play lower? I do feel Fine and didn't spew but not sure if I should play right away.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:25 AM   #4658
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Take as long a break as you need, only you know how long that is.

I think I've always taken at least one day after a big loss but I know I need it.

When I take a break I completely abstain from poker for a while, then I study for a bit, then I play.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:54 PM   #4659
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Had 2 mediocre loosing sessions followed yday by a pretty brutal session -6 buy ins, got my money in good 5/6 times 2 outtered 3 times blah blah. Previously I had a 3 buy in stop loss but this game had some absolute stars (sticking in 1.5k on a Q92 flop with J8off ect) so I fought for a bit longer, played well but drowned. Do u guys usually just get right back to the felt after a big loosing few days or take a day/days off? Play elsewhere for a few days? Study instead of play? Play lower? I do feel Fine and didn't spew but not sure if I should play right away.
Figure out how the 6 BI loss affects you. Is it financial burden, psychological, confidence, or some other mental issue?

Confront that issue and be honest whether it will still affect you when you get back to the table. If it will, take some time off to resolve it before you head back.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:04 PM   #4660
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Sounds like pretty epic run bad. The good thing about running that bad is that it is so clear that you were playing correctly that the loss should not affect your confidence in any way. I wouldnt do anything special. I wouldnt take a break, and i wouldnt go out to play a session just to get back on the horse.

Two things to guard against: Dont press trying to score a big win next session back. And if you book a modest win, think positive " rally cap is on!" not "jfc, i lose 6 buy ins then win 3/4 of a BI."

I cant tell you how many times i have tilted myself with that second line of thought.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:38 PM   #4661
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I just went through a bad multiple cooler sessions followed by many break even sessions, After each time I look back and reevaluate my play. Am I loosing/ breaking even because I am playing bad? and dependent on the answer I decide whether or not to take a break. Other wise I just keep playing. Also I always study after any session I think I didn't play my best, winning, loosing break even. I my not study after a cooler if I feel I played well.

That is kind of my format.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:15 PM   #4662
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by kdready View Post
I just went through a bad multiple cooler sessions followed by many break even sessions, After each time I look back and reevaluate my play. Am I loosing/ breaking even because I am playing bad? and dependent on the answer I decide whether or not to take a break. Other wise I just keep playing. Also I always study after any session I think I didn't play my best, winning, loosing break even. I my not study after a cooler if I feel I played well.

That is kind of my format.
It's important to also look back at your notes from these losing sessions and downswings a few weeks or months later. I dropped something like 15BI over the course of 150 hours and 3 months last year. A lot of the spots I was way ahead and got 2-outered, many were marginal (low +EV, high variance) that I kept losing, etc. And my analysis at the time supported all of that. But when I looked back on it later there were definitely a good number of spots in between the coolers where I was .... "pushing" and trying to force the action, either by trying to get folds in spots that didn't make sense or calling way too thin.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:47 PM   #4663
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I have a question about finances and the like.

I'm a 22 year old kid (kinda kid) who wants to play poker as a side income since I just get that feeling playing poker that's undescribable. It's a cool feeling. I have an Associate's degree and am going back to college in the fall to become a high school math teacher. I also have a part time job making $9/hour (work 6 days a week, 30-35 hours a week) which will go to about $9.50/hour in a couple months. (I know it's a crappy job, but it's until I graduate college. I also just got a small promotion that will look more impressive than it actually is on job resumes, so stick with it). As you guys have known, I am trying to learn and post and read books and the like to improve my game.

I took some shots at live 1/2 as it was my first ventures into live poker, and it's gone fairly bad. I've played 71.5 hours since February 15th and lost at a rate of -$8.91/hour. To be fair, there have been some bad beats (KK< 34 on a J37 flop) but there has also been some spots where I played not optimally (not cbetting KJ on a Jxx board when shortstacked in position after iso-raising). And I know I'm not a loser at 1/2. But I know I can get worlds better.

Here's my question. My BR (lolBR) trickled down to $90 after 3 brutal sessions in a row (I even tried shortstacking; I hate shortstacking even more now with a passion of a hundred burning Rigels). I have a $2,000 liferoll and I'm willing to take out up to $200 from my savings. I'm also a financial nit and rarely spend huge chunks of money for anything. I also like having a decent amount set aside for rainy days (my car has had a bunch of rainy days the last couple of years). My monthly expenses are about $400/month (I don't have rent) and I make roughly $750-800/month after taxes and putting 20% of each paycheck into savings. How much would you guys consider transferring to my BR from my liferoll, if any? And would you guys play shortstacked and build up or just play full stacked?
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #4664
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Full stacked.
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:32 PM   #4665
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Full stack, only play what you can afford to lose. :thumbup:
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:37 PM   #4666
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah View Post
I have an Associate's degree and am going back to college in the fall to become a high school math teacher.
Good. This is obv. huge life +EV Please stick to this goal (or similar college degree goal)

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I also have a part time job making $9/hour (work 6 days a week, 30-35 hours a week) which will go to about $9.50/hour in a couple months. (I know it's a crappy job, but it's until I graduate college. I also just got a small promotion that will look more impressive than it actually is on job resumes, so stick with it).
Have pride in your work. You are doing better and have more work ethic than plenty in this country. $9.50 is decent and you are right the resume building is hugely important.

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As you guys have known, I am trying to learn and post and read books and the like to improve my game.
Good. I would say if you wanted to narrow your focus, read Harrington on Cash 1&2, and just live on this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah View Post
I took some shots at live 1/2 as it was my first ventures into live poker, and it's gone fairly bad. I've played 71.5 hours since February 15th and lost at a rate of -$8.91/hour. To be fair, there have been some bad beats (KK< 34 on a J37 flop)
Good that you are tracking. Keep doing that. I have a spreadsheet that tracks the obvious things like hours played, buy ins, etc. But I also have a section for hh to myself (I try to post at least 2 per session). Sometimes they make it here but really just writing it sometimes out you see your leaks. I also have a comments section about random stuff, such as if I was playing after work or had a huge spot at the table etc etc.

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My monthly expenses are about $400/month (I don't have rent) and I make roughly $750-800/month after taxes and putting 20% of each paycheck into savings.
This is quite impressive. Please keep doing this for the rest of your life. (I am a Financial Analyst and I can tell you this is the #1 life leak for 90% of Americans)

Quote:
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How much would you guys consider transferring to my BR from my liferoll, if any?
This is a tough question for me to answer. Standard wise you should have $4K to play 1/2. $1.5K would be pushing it hard at the minimum imo, but I assume it could be done as long as you don't tap the role at all. That said taking liferoll money and putting it into poker funds is something I wouldn't recommend to most.

I think the better advice would be to chop 20% savings, maybe 10% into liferoll and 10% into poker roll, until you get to $1.5K poker roll. (not playing in the meantime, just studying poker like no other) Its so much easier to play when you have a solid roll man, and really 1.5K isn't solid at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah View Post
How much would you guys consider transferring to my BR from my liferoll, if any? And would you guys play shortstacked and build up or just play full stacked?
Like I said I wouldn't "transfer" any of my current savings, but I couldn't fault your future savings to be split between life roll and poker roll.

Please don't play short stacked, full is how we crush this game.
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Old 04-07-2013, 10:39 PM   #4667
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Short stacking can work at 2/5 and up but I don't see it going very well at 1/2 and would advise against that strategy. Also, it may be possible that you aren't good enough to beat 1/2. You really want to have $4k to play 1/2, but I'm sure a real good player could do it with less until he built his roll. So, I'd probably just figure out how I can allocate future income towards my roll because there is no other way you are coming up with the money.

Also, you better become adept at hit and runs so that you are never risking too much money at one time.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:29 AM   #4668
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Honestly, you should abandon playing any poker for now and concentrate on your work and future career as a math teacher.

Playing live 1/2 NL is a waste of your time. Especially since you have no reason to believe that you are even a winning player. So many live 1/2 NL players tell themselves that they are winning players, yet they are just kidding themselves.

If you still want to play poker for fun, you should do so after you have started your higher-paying teaching career. Then you will have enough disposable income to play some poker for fun.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:23 AM   #4669
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Honestly, you should abandon playing any poker for now and concentrate on your work and future career as a math teacher.

Playing live 1/2 NL is a waste of your time. Especially since you have no reason to believe that you are even a winning player. So many live 1/2 NL players tell themselves that they are winning players, yet they are just kidding themselves.

If you still want to play poker for fun, you should do so after you have started your higher-paying teaching career. Then you will have enough disposable income to play some poker for fun.
I mainly agree with this. Absolutely do not transfer money from life roll to poker roll.

There are two wsys for you to play poker: deposit $50-$100!online and play nano stakes, or start saving a poker roll now and play when you have a few buy ins. If you bust, rinse and repeat.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:28 AM   #4670
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ATsai why you always being negative. You only need the min to sit in a game. Don't need 4k+. Everyone doesn't come from money and have that luxury.

If guys can deposit 50$ online and run it up. Surely someone can run up 400$ or what ever.

I know its not going to be easy. But a lot of poker pros said it best. If they didn't run hot at the beginning they wouldn't have made it the top.


Everyone is not educated able to get a good job or a trust fund baby.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:53 AM   #4671
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Screw depositing online and double screw waiting to build a "proper roll."

Dude should just play when he is able to financially and that's it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 02:56 AM   #4672
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Serio,

He just told us that he has almost zero money.

Why is it wrong for me to tell someone who has almost zero bankroll to wait until he is in a better spot to pursue his poker hobby at which he probably loses money?

I really think that people forget how dangerous it is for people WHO HAVE NO MONEY to gamble...especially when they are probably losing 1/2 NL players.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:02 AM   #4673
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FWIW, this is April 2013. It is not 2003 right after the Moneymaker boom.

Therefore, if you have been a losing 1/2 NL player until now, you are probably going to be a long-term losing 1/2 NL player.

As far as gambling goes (and playing poker is definitely gambling unless you are a very strong winning player with good BRM), IT IS INSANE to recommend that someone gamble what little money they have when the potential of that person destroying his life from problem gambling is very significant.

It is one thing for a well-off individual to play 1/2 NL for fun. It is quite another thing to tell that to a poor 22 year old who should be studying his ass off.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:06 AM   #4674
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^We have no idea if he is a winning player but at this point it doesn't matter. What matters is there is no point in seperating a bankroll because there is none, and his life roll is on the short side anyways which is understandable as a college student.

My point is if dude has a job then its ok to play a hundred or two for recreational purposes only. No one is saying go full degen, at least I am not.

ETA: Some of us spend lavishly on items other people would be surprised by. College students tend to spend their money on alcohol. This dude should spend whatever money he is comfortable losing and nothing more. To me telling him to not to play for weeks or months until he builds a roll might be bad advice and unrealistic.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:14 AM   #4675
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always full stack. An enormous chunk of profit comes from fish making mistakes full or deep. I mean, your profit comes from other players' mistakes and it's hard to make a big mistake with 50bb effective.

also shortstack at 1/2 just gets shredded by the rake

Last edited by DK Barrel; 04-08-2013 at 04:21 AM.
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