Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em live cash games of all stakes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2013, 03:24 PM   #4451
fun101
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
We started a bounty game at Red Rock where you get $5 for everyone you felt from anyone that's participating, and you pay everyone else in the game $5 when you lose an all-in (don't need to get felted on the losing side). Last time one of the dealers told the floor and they told us not to do it anymore since we were passing chips around the table. Fun game though...great when you win, really sucks when you lose a few of them.
Define felt, do they have to leave the table? Or can they just lose all their chips and reload? It would really suck if you lost an All in on your last buyin in you pocket and were done playing for the day so you had to go to the ATM to pay the other players.
fun101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:24 PM   #4452
Slim Reaper
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 13
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Anybody care to guess a reasonable amount of hrs before putting any stock in figures derived from playing entirely PokerPro tables? Seems 1k hrs is standard for live $1$/$2 (which in my experience is ~28 hands/hr), where PokerPro comes in around 45ish. Between 600-700 I'm guessing given the difference in hands/hr but thought I'd ask.

Thinking of shotting $2/$5 but currently only +$6900 over 240 hrs ($28.81/hr) and approx 10.8k hands. Really feel like winrate should be north of $30 given the player pool in my room and the fact that a good chunk of my play has been admittedly b-game prior to the last half dozen sessions I've taken more seriously. Obviously I have no tipping to worry about and I'm playing considerably more hands/hr so winrates should be higher than a normal live $1/$2, just not sure by how much. Anyone have any experience in this environment?
Slim Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:30 PM   #4453
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,883
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
I do play the color flop game for small amounts if the action is dying or im losing focus. I run so bad in it though.
I like games like this. Or Trips/Quads when playing Omaha.

It's a good neutral EV way of promoting an "action" image and helps keep your focus on the board and the game even when you're not in the hand.
Angrist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:33 PM   #4454
wj94
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7,719
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by fun101 View Post
Define felt, do they have to leave the table? Or can they just lose all their chips and reload? It would really suck if you lost an All in on your last buyin in you pocket and were done playing for the day so you had to go to the ATM to pay the other players.
Don't have to leave the table, they just have to lose all their chips, reload is fine. Making someone pull money out of their pocket after they get busted is the best part of the game. People have gone to the ATM to pay the other players in the game before...it's great.

EX: I have $500 and beat someone in an all-in hand that only has $200. If there are 4 people in the game, they would each pay me $5. If the person with $200 beats me, I have to pay the other 4 people $5 each. If I only have $200 and the other person has $500 and I lose, I would have to pull $20 out of my wallet to pay the other 4 people.

Floor considered it adding to our stacks which you can't do if you have more than $300, so they told us to keep it off the table and use cash instead of chips if we were going to do it. That made it less fun.

You can't have more than 4-5 people in the game though otherwise the all-ins against other people that are in the game wind up evening out money-wise and nothing happens.
wj94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:33 PM   #4455
iLikeCaliDonks
banned
 
iLikeCaliDonks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California
Posts: 15,163
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

30/hr at 1/2 on your B-game? You should be playing 2/5, man your good doing that at 1/2. Stop wasting your time at 1/2.
iLikeCaliDonks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:43 PM   #4456
fun101
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,239
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
Don't have to leave the table, they just have to lose all their chips, reload is fine. Making someone pull money out of their pocket after they get busted is the best part of the game. People have gone to the ATM to pay the other players in the game before...it's great.

EX: I have $500 and beat someone in an all-in hand that only has $200. If there are 4 people in the game, they would each pay me $5. If the person with $200 beats me, I have to pay the other 4 people $5 each. If I only have $200 and the other person has $500 and I lose, I would have to pull $20 out of my wallet to pay the other 4 people.

Floor considered it adding to our stacks which you can't do if you have more than $300, so they told us to keep it off the table and use cash instead of chips if we were going to do it. That made it less fun.

You can't have more than 4-5 people in the game though otherwise the all-ins against other people that are in the game wind up evening out money-wise and nothing happens.
What if someone goes All In for like $30 and you call and lose? Do you still have to pay everyone $5?
fun101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:43 PM   #4457
Slim Reaper
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 13
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks View Post
30/hr at 1/2 on your B-game? You should be playing 2/5, man your good doing that at 1/2. Stop wasting your time at 1/2.
Haha thanks for the vote of confidence but, yeah, I definitely feel like especially late in my sessions (I'll play 8-12 hrs) that I definitely bleed at least a little bit and am killing some profit there. I really only get to play on Sundays since I'm working 60-70 hr weeks, and even on Sunday that's after working 7:30am-3pm. Sometimes I get a day off during the week so I'll get in like a 10:30am-10pm session but that's few and far between. Just trying to equate what I'm playing to what everyone else is on here and get an idea of whether or not I've got some ability and if shotting might be reasonable after so few hours since my window of hours to grind is so small. Thanks for the reply.
Slim Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 03:46 PM   #4458
wj94
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 7,719
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by fun101 View Post
What if someone goes All In for like $30 and you call and lose? Do you still have to pay everyone $5?
Yep, but if you win you get $5 from everyone else so it goes both ways....sometimes we'll put in a rule that the all-in has to be for more than $100 but usually it's for any amount.
wj94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 08:24 PM   #4459
DK Barrel
Concept of the Week author
 
DK Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: no gamble, no future
Posts: 6,798
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai View Post
Well, I usually like to encourage regs to coin flip with me at the table because I feel that they are likely to tilt more from losing flips than I am.
read a bart hanson article the other day that relates to this: http://www.seatopenpoker.net/committ...s-to-doing-so/

Seems solid.
DK Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 09:25 PM   #4460
PoppaTMan
veteran
 
PoppaTMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim Reaper View Post
Anybody care to guess a reasonable amount of hrs before putting any stock in figures derived from playing entirely PokerPro tables? Seems 1k hrs is standard for live $1$/$2 (which in my experience is ~28 hands/hr), where PokerPro comes in around 45ish. Between 600-700 I'm guessing given the difference in hands/hr but thought I'd ask.

Thinking of shotting $2/$5 but currently only +$6900 over 240 hrs ($28.81/hr) and approx 10.8k hands. Really feel like winrate should be north of $30 given the player pool in my room and the fact that a good chunk of my play has been admittedly b-game prior to the last half dozen sessions I've taken more seriously. Obviously I have no tipping to worry about and I'm playing considerably more hands/hr so winrates should be higher than a normal live $1/$2, just not sure by how much. Anyone have any experience in this environment?
You're getting about 60% more h/hr, and assuming you're winning 10% of hands, you're saving $5/hr on tips. So depending on rake and buyin structure, it would seem like ~$37/hr would be around the top sustainable WR.
PoppaTMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 10:06 PM   #4461
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,731
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I must be a poker god for running at $39/hr this year then (straight up live dealers bitches).
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 10:39 PM   #4462
PoppaTMan
veteran
 
PoppaTMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah, but do any of those straight up live dealers look vaguely like celebrities or movie characters?
PoppaTMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2013, 10:41 PM   #4463
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,731
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

In my mind they all look like topless celebrity dealers. They make about as many mistakes too.
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 05:02 AM   #4464
corlath
veteran
 
corlath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Chocobo Farm
Posts: 2,196
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaTMan View Post
Yeah, but do any of those straight up live dealers look vaguely like celebrities or movie characters?
There is a dealer at Blue Chip who looks like Jennifer Garner...especially when she does a closed-lip smile. Exact same dimples. Eyes, nose.
corlath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 05:10 AM   #4465
skater3598
Pooh-Bah
 
skater3598's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by skater3598 View Post
what is the best per-hour anybody is heard of on these boards over a very large sample? 1/2, 1/3, or 2/5, just wondering what kind of hourly the absolute best can expect

ikestoys, what's your estimate on your 1/2, 2/5 hourlies?
bumping this. anybody? ikestoys?
skater3598 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 07:12 AM   #4466
dhcg86
banned
 
dhcg86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ignoring the trolls under my bridge
Posts: 12,410
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I know someone with $45 over 2k hrs. I think $70 hr is possible tbh
dhcg86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 07:35 AM   #4467
dhcg86
banned
 
dhcg86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ignoring the trolls under my bridge
Posts: 12,410
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by PuraVida96 View Post
To add to this. There are also no pay grades in poker. In fact, there's sort of a regressive pay grade in the player pool improves over time and unless your rate of improvement out paces the public your winrate will stagnate/decrease.

Also, as a pro, you'll be putting in more hours which means people will become more familiar with your game so you'll need to make the right counter-adjustments in order to sustain your current winrate as well.


BookToMarket, when you were playing in college was that online or live play? If it was online I'd like your chances better. Still, it's a huge decision and something you need to fully think through. What would your back-up plan be if poker doesn't work out? Could you go back to your current job?

Are there 5/10 games where you play? If not, 100% stick to playing on the side. Grinding 2/5 won't cut it.
2/5 will def cut it. And don't kid yourself; the player pool will not adjust

Quote:
Originally Posted by skater3598 View Post
what is the best per-hour anybody is heard of on these boards over a very large sample? w/e stakes, just wondering what kind of hourly the absolute best can expect

ikestoys, what's your estimate on your 1/2, 2/5 hourlies?
$55 at 1/3
$65 at 2/5

Kydd had like $125 an hr at 1/3 over a very long time

Quote:
Originally Posted by serio562 View Post
Lurker here:

People tend to laugh at me when I say 1/2 is significantly different than 1/3. Playing 1/2 is almost tilting for me. Unfortunately, this is one of the reasons why I avoid playing at Venetian and MGM when visiting Vegas.

ETA: I do not understand why V and MGM would even run 1/2 instead of 1/3 when it is obviously a smaller game that would attract on average players with less money to gamble.
Screw 1/2

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I would much rather play 150bb 1/2 than 100bb 1/3.
**** no. Way easier to get big stacks with 1/3
dhcg86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 08:19 AM   #4468
Muckin' Ducks
stranger
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

@55.08/hr playing 2-100 spread. Only 24 hours though.
Muckin' Ducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 09:11 AM   #4469
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,731
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Max sustainable at 1/2 is ~$20-25/hr.
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 09:22 AM   #4470
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 31,421
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah I really cannot see a $55/hr winrate over a super long sample unless it is a deep game with low rake.

Like if you are playign a 1/3 uncapped game with 15k on the table it really isn't the same as a 1/3 game with <3k on the table.
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 09:26 AM   #4471
spikeraw22
The Situation
 
spikeraw22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SB is the new BTN
Posts: 8,731
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I started a trend a few weeks ago and got the table to agree to table stakes. Now every couple days I go in and every fish at the table is at least 400bb deep its a dream come true.
spikeraw22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 04:21 PM   #4472
corlath
veteran
 
corlath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Chocobo Farm
Posts: 2,196
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm unclear on what you mean, spike--table stakes is normal. Do you mean you got them to agree not to cap the buyin?
corlath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 04:26 PM   #4473
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 31,421
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

yes buying in for ike 100% of the biggest stack
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 06:06 PM   #4474
iLikeCaliDonks
banned
 
iLikeCaliDonks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: California
Posts: 15,163
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I would rather buyin something comfortable. What if the biggest stack is 500bbs+.

I wonder what pros do in that situation, cover the big stack or buy in like 200-300bbs.
iLikeCaliDonks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2013, 06:09 PM   #4475
bip!
Slow Pony
 
bip!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: not on urban dictionary...
Posts: 13,669
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLikeCaliDonks View Post
I would rather buyin something comfortable. What if the biggest stack is 500bbs+.

I wonder what pros do in that situation, cover the big stack or buy in like 200-300bbs.
There is skill and there is position.... I would buy in to cover anyone I have position on no matter their skill.

.. I might buy in for the same as the highest stack even OOP if I have a significant skill edge on them
bip! is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive