It all depends on your situation.

100k bankroll is definitely unnecessary for a young healthy single poker pro who plans to grind 2/5 NL live. 12k + 6 months expenses saved seems fine there. That probably adds up to 20k-25k total bankroll.

For me, however, I definitely would need to have at least 100k in my liquid bankroll because I have a housewife, two young kids, 2 cars, and a house, so I have much more monthly expenses than a young single hotshot grinder with no dependents. I also need to have quality health insurance for my family. I have usually played 5/10 NL lately (occasionally bigger and smaller), so I would need at least 100k in my bankroll because my monthly expenses are pretty hefty here in Los Angeles. This is especially true for my LAG playing style because I like to make a lot of thin +EV plays that many other poker players wouldn't make, so I need the extra bankroll to handle the high variance.

Generally speaking, a home is more of a liability than an asset in terms of going pro as a poker grinder. A mortgage payment and the accompanying debt is more like a financial chain around your ankle.

Savings should usually kept as savings, especially if those savings are slated for retirement. Even young single guys need retirement savings. Most importantly, NEVER EVER withdraw from a tax-advantaged retirement account to go "pro" as a poker player. That's just financial suicide.

For most people having a home means more expenses, not fewer. Have to pay the mortgage, the utilities, the upkeep, taxes, etc.

And you should always keep your liferoll and bankroll separate.

I saw a dude drop 1000bb in 90min the other day. Sadly, I was busy folding J4o the whole time.

You can use a Roth IRA as a "savings" account since you can withdraw your deposits at any time without penalty.

I meant as opposed to, like, moving somewhere. But yeah that's totally true.

Is it a good idea to use a Roth as a savings account I have never heard of doing this before?

Also since their is a cap on contributions (5000?) is it a gross or net cap.
Example- You open a roth with 3k, then take 2k out, can you still add 4k to it this year or can it only be 2k?

I've been playing poker regularly as a "hobby" since I turned 21, 7 years now, but I've only really been keeping track of hours and wins since Jan 1, 2013

I've had a rough idea, but now I write it down. I just didn't really care before.

Since 1/1/13 I'm +$6,100 playing $1/2 and $1/3 and using my casino card to track the hours, it's 310.
So that's right around $20/Hour
Decent? Sustainable?

The games aren't really that tough, just standard LL-Stakes players. There's a few other Regs that I respect, but there's nobody that I really feel is better than me. Not to get a big head...

I guess I'm playing around 40 Hours/Week, now that I'm unemployed currently.

This is 2 out of 84 months that you have been playing. I know you haven't been keeping solid track but you have to have some idea of if you are running hot or standard compared to the last 82 months?

I don't have too much experience but from reading through this thread pretty regularly it seems like $20/hr at 1/2 is slightly above the max. sustainable rate.

They may not be visible to you, the occupant, but those are expenses that exist regardless of whether you own or rent. Financially, there are actually some savings derived from owning including:

Tax deductions (which are quite sizeable)
Delayed payment of property taxes (In my state, a home owner can pay 2012 taxes at the end of January 2013...thus a full 13 months after they began accruing. A renter will have no luck asking a landlord to restructure rent so that the monthly payments are lower and the renter can pay the property taxes when they are actually due).
No management fees / company profits - People that own real estate to rent are in the business to make money, and as such renters are paying a premium.

The main negative of home ownership is that property is not a liquid asset. The biggest positive for me is that I rent rooms in my house and actually live for free. This combined with only having to pay property taxes and insurance once a year (on several houses) makes the poker swings much easier to take.

Well if you are adding in 3k and taking out 2k in the same year you are doing it wrong, like for a person who has a tax deferred 401k account, doing a Roth IRA as well which grows tax free would allow them to have a large amount of liquid cash (in the sum that they invested) that they could use for a down payment on a home or w/e else depending on their situation. I am saying that instead of funding your 401k, having 50% of your yearly salary sitting as an emergency fund in a savings account, and having a Roth IRA you can instead:

(1) fund your 401k up to matching
(2) put the excess savings into your Roth IRA where it can aggressively grow and if you ever had the need you can take it out.

Like if all you have is your Roth IRA you wouldn't want to use it as a savings account but if you have a tax deferred retirement account it opens up your options to being more aggressive with your other accounts.

This is all well and good unless you are e member of a home owners association

If you rent a home that is in an HOA, that expense is still passed on to you, the renter, you just don't see it itemized.

Ha, I was talking about the headaches and not the fines!

A home is, more or less, a forced savings account and a large time sink. It is great for a lot of reasons but if you want to keep your options open and do not have deep roots in your area I'd suggest renting.

Agreed, owning a home is more work, a greater risk, and will tie you down more. If you are an unproven poker player trying to make it as a pro, a house could be a great burden. If you don't pay rent you can still find another place to live but if you don't pay your mortgage your house will be foreclosed on and you will lose your shirt.

Or just living with your parents.

Seriously if you are trying to make it at poker full-time having your life expenses very low is an important part of getting started. It will keep your stress level much lower.

February results, played a lot this month:

Total sessions: 27
Winning sessions: 21
Losing sessions: 6
Biggest win: $859
Biggest loss: $1,400
Total profit for the month: $5,033
Average win for the month: $186.40
Total profit year-to-date: $13,731
Total average win for the year: $249.65

Lots of big swings this month...had to reload at least once in 20 of my 27 sessions, while usually it's a little less than half the sessions. Ran pretty bad in huge pots with flopped sets, getting outdrawn by combo draws in 3 or 4 heads-up $900+ pots that were all-in on flop. Three of my worst days ever this month and two of them back-to-back on 2/21 and 2/22 when I ran into cooler after cooler. Couple of big pots got me back to even on 2/21 after being stuck 4 buy-ins, and then ran really good this past week to salvage a pretty good month overall



February graph:



Year-to-date graph:

21 out of 27 session is a sick run, gj

I assume you are playing 1/3?

Do you play in Vegas?

1/2 $300 max. I play in LV, mostly at Red Rock and Venetian.

Looks like the only day you took off was Valentines Day? Impressive nose-to-the-grindstone grinding ability; how long is your average session?

Yeah, I was pretty sick from 2/12-2/15 and 2/14 was the worst of it so I just stayed home. Average session is about 6 hours....weekend days are usually 6-10 hours and weekdays are usually 4-6 hours. Some weeknights if I'm up $300+ quickly I will just lock it in after a quick 2-4 hour session. Last night I played a little less than 3 hours but won a couple good pots so just decided to get dinner and go home instead of grinding another few hours.

About how long before you guys know if you're a winning live player or your true skill range? I played online cash from 2009-2011, starting fairly breakeven but eventually getting it and moving up to the point where I was comfortably rolled for 25nl (including being more aggressive, playing a bit looser, and starting as many tables as I could). At BF, I was probably a 4bb/100 winner at 25nl FR.

I dabbled a bit in Everleaf (lol) before they shut down their doors to US players and turned out to be a shady ponzi scheme. I was crushing the super low stakes (euro 10nl and lower) and took some time off. My state built a casino about 10 minutes from my house, and it has a fairly large sized poker room (but awful rake structure). I hesitated going to it until mid-February, when I had enough money to take a couple of splashes at the 1/2 games.

So far I've played 5 sessions (lol), totalling 19 hours (I'm a busy man) and am averaging a winrate of -$14.21/hour. I keep track of all of my sessions in an excel spreadsheet, in case I ever do make enough money to have to claim taxes on it. I know I definitely need more hours and more sessions to get at a true winrate or something close to it (I refuse to accept I'm a -$14/hour player at 1/2, these guys are awful). About how long does it take before I get close to this?

Keep in mind I don't really have a bankroll as much as I have physical cash set aside to play poker with, and if I bust that then I don't take any money from my checking account or savings account until I get my tax refund back, which will help feed the BR. I have somewhere between a part-time and full-time job working ~30-40 hours a week, a busy social life, a girlfriend currently at college who becomes emotional if I don't call her every night to talk to her (even though half the time she falls asleep on the phone), and have absolutely no aspirations to quit my job to play poker full time. In fact, I'm back in college come fall semester. Any tips, any advice?

Sit down at the table and try to win, that's just about all you can do.

^^ what he said

to assign an arbitrary # of hours you need to deduce anything that resembles a true live winrate.... I'm gonna say 800-1000... surely someone will correct me.