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Old 02-26-2013, 11:19 PM   #4226
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Almost Completed 1000 Hours of live poker since I stopped playing on the internet. I work now so the money doesn't mean as much. I work my scores out on a works date base spread-sheet. 990 in it looks Like I will end 6BB/Hr winner in £1GBP/1GBP NLH Casino Card Room Game. This is a little smaller than 1/2USD if your not familair with USD/GBP conversion rates.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:30 AM   #4227
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilamsolo View Post
Re: In the poker game of life, you're deep stacked right now and just saw the flop, you don't need to commit to the hand just yet. You've got a lot of life to live, and a lot of poker left to play. FWIW, my advice is to not rush it.
This was deep yo'
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:32 AM   #4228
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With regard to 5k in 50 hours of 2-5, I've always played 1-3 with 500 max, or 2-5 with 1k max, and staked, ad have never been Jim 5k makeup ever. And I play 2-5 basically everytime it runs at my casino. My staker plays 2-5 as much if not more, and has never lost more than 4k straight at any stake...he showed me his record. Book thing because we were talking about another horse of his. Just f fwiw
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:37 AM   #4229
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another friend who plays big games...lost 10k in like 3 days at the 2-5 game I play in mostly...he hasn't made as much money from poker as my staker, but I'd say he prolly has made 50k+ at very least
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:22 AM   #4230
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm hearing a lot of people say you need 100k cash to play poker professionally lately, lol. That's so overrolled it's ridiculous.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:27 AM   #4231
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I'm hearing a lot of people say you need 100k cash to play poker professionally lately, lol. That's so overrolled it's ridiculous.
If you were just to dive into it with absolutely no assets to your name and no job to fall back on, I think 100k is a reasonable number.

But I would expect most people do have a home and some savings.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #4232
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It all depends on your situation.

100k bankroll is definitely unnecessary for a young healthy single poker pro who plans to grind 2/5 NL live. 12k + 6 months expenses saved seems fine there. That probably adds up to 20k-25k total bankroll.

For me, however, I definitely would need to have at least 100k in my liquid bankroll because I have a housewife, two young kids, 2 cars, and a house, so I have much more monthly expenses than a young single hotshot grinder with no dependents. I also need to have quality health insurance for my family. I have usually played 5/10 NL lately (occasionally bigger and smaller), so I would need at least 100k in my bankroll because my monthly expenses are pretty hefty here in Los Angeles. This is especially true for my LAG playing style because I like to make a lot of thin +EV plays that many other poker players wouldn't make, so I need the extra bankroll to handle the high variance.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:32 AM   #4233
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Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
If you were just to dive into it with absolutely no assets to your name and no job to fall back on, I think 100k is a reasonable number.

But I would expect most people do have a home and some savings.
Generally speaking, a home is more of a liability than an asset in terms of going pro as a poker grinder. A mortgage payment and the accompanying debt is more like a financial chain around your ankle.

Savings should usually kept as savings, especially if those savings are slated for retirement. Even young single guys need retirement savings. Most importantly, NEVER EVER withdraw from a tax-advantaged retirement account to go "pro" as a poker player. That's just financial suicide.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:44 PM   #4234
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
If you were just to dive into it with absolutely no assets to your name and no job to fall back on, I think 100k is a reasonable number.

But I would expect most people do have a home and some savings.
For most people having a home means more expenses, not fewer. Have to pay the mortgage, the utilities, the upkeep, taxes, etc.

And you should always keep your liferoll and bankroll separate.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:13 PM   #4235
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I saw a dude drop 1000bb in 90min the other day. Sadly, I was busy folding J4o the whole time.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:34 PM   #4236
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

You can use a Roth IRA as a "savings" account since you can withdraw your deposits at any time without penalty.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:37 PM   #4237
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I meant as opposed to, like, moving somewhere. But yeah that's totally true.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:35 PM   #4238
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by 11t View Post
You can use a Roth IRA as a "savings" account since you can withdraw your deposits at any time without penalty.
Is it a good idea to use a Roth as a savings account I have never heard of doing this before?

Also since their is a cap on contributions (5000?) is it a gross or net cap.
Example- You open a roth with 3k, then take 2k out, can you still add 4k to it this year or can it only be 2k?
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:00 PM   #4239
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I've been playing poker regularly as a "hobby" since I turned 21, 7 years now, but I've only really been keeping track of hours and wins since Jan 1, 2013

I've had a rough idea, but now I write it down. I just didn't really care before.

Since 1/1/13 I'm +$6,100 playing $1/2 and $1/3 and using my casino card to track the hours, it's 310.
So that's right around $20/Hour
Decent? Sustainable?

The games aren't really that tough, just standard LL-Stakes players. There's a few other Regs that I respect, but there's nobody that I really feel is better than me. Not to get a big head...

I guess I'm playing around 40 Hours/Week, now that I'm unemployed currently.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:17 PM   #4240
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Rmbxr9 View Post
I've been playing poker regularly as a "hobby" since I turned 21, 7 years now, but I've only really been keeping track of hours and wins since Jan 1, 2013

I've had a rough idea, but now I write it down. I just didn't really care before.

Since 1/1/13 I'm +$6,100 playing $1/2 and $1/3 and using my casino card to track the hours, it's 310.
So that's right around $20/Hour
Decent? Sustainable?

The games aren't really that tough, just standard LL-Stakes players. There's a few other Regs that I respect, but there's nobody that I really feel is better than me. Not to get a big head...

I guess I'm playing around 40 Hours/Week, now that I'm unemployed currently.
This is 2 out of 84 months that you have been playing. I know you haven't been keeping solid track but you have to have some idea of if you are running hot or standard compared to the last 82 months?

I don't have too much experience but from reading through this thread pretty regularly it seems like $20/hr at 1/2 is slightly above the max. sustainable rate.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:44 PM   #4241
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by The Rumor View Post
For most people having a home means more expenses, not fewer. Have to pay the mortgage, the utilities, the upkeep, taxes, etc.
They may not be visible to you, the occupant, but those are expenses that exist regardless of whether you own or rent. Financially, there are actually some savings derived from owning including:

Tax deductions (
which are quite sizeable)
Delayed payment of property taxes (In my state, a home owner can pay 2012 taxes at the end of January 2013...thus a full 13 months after they began accruing. A renter will have no luck asking a landlord to restructure rent so that the monthly payments are lower and the renter can pay the property taxes when they are actually due).
No management fees / company profits - People that own real estate to rent are in the business to make money, and as such renters are paying a premium.

The main negative of home ownership is that property is not a liquid asset. The biggest positive for me is that I rent rooms in my house and actually live for free. This combined with only having to pay property taxes and insurance once a year (on several houses) makes the poker swings much easier to take.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:45 PM   #4242
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatteyA28 View Post
Is it a good idea to use a Roth as a savings account I have never heard of doing this before?

Also since their is a cap on contributions (5000?) is it a gross or net cap.
Example- You open a roth with 3k, then take 2k out, can you still add 4k to it this year or can it only be 2k?
Well if you are adding in 3k and taking out 2k in the same year you are doing it wrong, like for a person who has a tax deferred 401k account, doing a Roth IRA as well which grows tax free would allow them to have a large amount of liquid cash (in the sum that they invested) that they could use for a down payment on a home or w/e else depending on their situation. I am saying that instead of funding your 401k, having 50% of your yearly salary sitting as an emergency fund in a savings account, and having a Roth IRA you can instead:

(1) fund your 401k up to matching
(2) put the excess savings into your Roth IRA where it can aggressively grow and if you ever had the need you can take it out.

Like if all you have is your Roth IRA you wouldn't want to use it as a savings account but if you have a tax deferred retirement account it opens up your options to being more aggressive with your other accounts.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:45 PM   #4243
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Tom Dwans Son View Post
They may not be visible to you, the occupant, but those are expenses that exist regardless of whether you own or rent. Financially, there are actually some savings derived from owning including:

Tax deductions (
which are quite sizeable)
Delayed payment of property taxes (In my state, a home owner can pay 2012 taxes at the end of January 2013...thus a full 13 months after they began accruing. A renter will have no luck asking a landlord to restructure rent so that the monthly payments are lower and the renter can pay the property taxes when they are actually due).
No management fees / company profits - People that own real estate to rent are in the business to make money, and as such renters are paying a premium.

The main negative of home ownership is that property is not a liquid asset. The biggest positive for me is that I rent rooms in my house and actually live for free. This combined with only having to pay property taxes and insurance once a year (on several houses) makes the poker swings much easier to take.
This is all well and good unless you are e member of a home owners association
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:48 PM   #4244
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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This is all well and good unless you are e member of a home owners association
If you rent a home that is in an HOA, that expense is still passed on to you, the renter, you just don't see it itemized.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:05 PM   #4245
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Ha, I was talking about the headaches and not the fines!

A home is, more or less, a forced savings account and a large time sink. It is great for a lot of reasons but if you want to keep your options open and do not have deep roots in your area I'd suggest renting.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:17 PM   #4246
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by 11t View Post
Ha, I was talking about the headaches and not the fines!

A home is, more or less, a forced savings account and a large time sink. It is great for a lot of reasons but if you want to keep your options open and do not have deep roots in your area I'd suggest renting.
Agreed, owning a home is more work, a greater risk, and will tie you down more. If you are an unproven poker player trying to make it as a pro, a house could be a great burden. If you don't pay rent you can still find another place to live but if you don't pay your mortgage your house will be foreclosed on and you will lose your shirt.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #4247
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t View Post
Ha, I was talking about the headaches and not the fines!

A home is, more or less, a forced savings account and a large time sink. It is great for a lot of reasons but if you want to keep your options open and do not have deep roots in your area I'd suggest renting.
Or just living with your parents.

Seriously if you are trying to make it at poker full-time having your life expenses very low is an important part of getting started. It will keep your stress level much lower.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:37 PM   #4248
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

February results, played a lot this month:

Total sessions: 27
Winning sessions: 21
Losing sessions: 6
Biggest win: $859
Biggest loss: $1,400
Total profit for the month: $5,033
Average win for the month: $186.40
Total profit year-to-date: $13,731
Total average win for the year: $249.65

Lots of big swings this month...had to reload at least once in 20 of my 27 sessions, while usually it's a little less than half the sessions. Ran pretty bad in huge pots with flopped sets, getting outdrawn by combo draws in 3 or 4 heads-up $900+ pots that were all-in on flop. Three of my worst days ever this month and two of them back-to-back on 2/21 and 2/22 when I ran into cooler after cooler. Couple of big pots got me back to even on 2/21 after being stuck 4 buy-ins, and then ran really good this past week to salvage a pretty good month overall



February graph:



Year-to-date graph:

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Old 03-01-2013, 12:39 PM   #4249
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21 out of 27 session is a sick run, gj
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:42 PM   #4250
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I assume you are playing 1/3?

Do you play in Vegas?
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