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Old 12-31-2012, 10:06 PM   #3251
D0UGHBOY
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They say its impossible for a few reasons.
1). They have a bit of a warped sense of reality. They are accustomed to living in LA and enjoy nice things and for that reason they need more money than average.
2.) The rake structure in LA. They said it was possible to beat the game at the $5 blind levels, but you can only beat it for a moderate amount.
3.) Cost of living/inflation goes up but winnings don't. Say you play 2/5 and win a decent amount that's good, but what happens in a few years as cost of living goes up as well as inflation.

To sum it up yes you can beat the game at the 2/5 level, but it's not a great living. You need to have higher aspirations than that.
When you are playing 2/5 you have no health insurance, no 401k, no paid vacation, no Christmas bonus or annual raise. You are stuck struggling to make the same amount as the games get tougher.
Basically if you have aspirations of playing 2/5 for a living for a long period of time my advice is to marry a nurse or a doctor (like limon).
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:06 PM   #3252
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Maybe they're simply accustomed to a certain level of living, and to them, $5k a month is not living.

Medium household income in US is ~$45,000 in 2004, which is a tad less than $4,000 a month for an entire household. If one person making that much money isn't considered making a living, then I guess it isn't.

They're also probably saying that if you're playing in LA, settling at 2/5 or 3/5 is limiting yourself.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:11 PM   #3253
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SeaUlater, the only difference with that is the guaranteed income/benefits/raises that go along with that job. In poker there are no guarantees as well as the games getting tougher.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:00 AM   #3254
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Yeah I remember the Limon and Bart podcast. What they where saying was; if you are playing low stakes for a living its hard to save and live life.

Which is true, I been a 4 year grinder in LA. I make money but my bankroll never grows. I make and spend. Something always happens. I save then boom run bad or something with life.

At the 5/10 levels you can make enough to live 3k+ and save what ever you make after cost of living. I would say 6-10k a month is pretty standard for a live 5/10 grinder.

At the 5$ blind level, a 5k month is great. I try to reach for 3 or 4k a month. I spend about 3k a month. So even though I'm a winning player. My earnings rarely exceed my living expenses for the month. Unless I have a good one. A good month is rare for me. But on average I say one good month every 2 months.

That podcast still haunts me to this day. Since I'm stuck in lowstakes.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:15 AM   #3255
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you are beating 2/5 at a "decent" rate of 10bb/hr then that's about 2k/week assuming you play 40 hrs/week. I think that's pretty respectable.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:37 AM   #3256
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

That is not decent. That is simply crushing the game.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:52 AM   #3257
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That is not decent. That is simply crushing the game.
Agreed.
Prolly should be taking shot at 5-10.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:37 AM   #3258
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Just because a player crushes 2/5 doesn't mean they should necessarily move up to 5/10. Also, the best of the best crush around 15 bbs/hr. This is a very nice living especially if you are a single nihilist with little living expenses such as myself.

BTW, there are players that play 1/2 for a living. I have no doubt about that, but I personally wouldn't consider that much of a living.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:39 PM   #3259
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Dwans Son View Post
Just because a player crushes 2/5 doesn't mean they should necessarily move up to 5/10. Also, the best of the best crush around 15 bbs/hr. This is a very nice living especially if you are a single nihilist with little living expenses such as myself.

BTW, there are players that play 1/2 for a living. I have no doubt about that, but I personally wouldn't consider that much of a living.
Most of the guys I know who are playing 1/2 for a living would agree. They know they're in an entry level job and they're looking forward to that first promotion to 2/5.

There's one exception. I know a guy who has been beating 1/2 solidly for 4 years now, and he seems reluctant to move up even to 1/3. Recently he's been asking me about the Bellagio 1/3 game, though, so I think he's coming around.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #3260
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by D0UGHBOY View Post
That is not decent. That is simply crushing the game.
Beating it handily? Yes. Crushing it? Seems a bit over the top. I have comfortably beat 2/5 for 10-12bb per hour over last 2 years. Don't feel like I crush the game though I generally only play 600-700 hrs/yr a lot of which is during peak hours, wsop, etc which may help to skew results
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #3261
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Quite simply if you are putting in over 1500 hours a year and beating the game for over 10bb an hour you are one of the biggest if not biggest winner in the room. If that's not crushing idk what is.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:42 PM   #3262
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Quite simply if you are putting in over 1500 hours a year and beating the game for over 10bb an hour you are one of the biggest if not biggest winner in the room. If that's not crushing idk what is.
Perhaps if u are playing full time. My point is if you are not playing full time, playing peak times, table selecting, etc 10-12 is not destroying the game IMO. But tomatoes/tomatos I guess.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #3263
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Must be nice to think that 10-12bb/hr is a walk in the park.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #3264
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Must be nice to think that 10-12bb/hr is a walk in the park.
I said it was beating it handily. But I think it is attainable with solid play. I do play higher as well but I think I'm just a solid grinder not some crazy LAG baller
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:50 PM   #3265
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

10-12 is crushing the game. Idc if its 700hrs its no easy task at all. Even with solid play you still need to run very well.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:55 PM   #3266
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Everyone on this website has a winrate of 15bb+ apparently.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:01 PM   #3267
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Everyone on this website has a winrate of 15bb+ apparently.
I was 8bb, currently at 7bb for over 4k hours.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:06 PM   #3268
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

There are different levels of play at different casinos and as such win rates will vary from place to place but it's safe to say that if you are beating a game for 10bb/hr over a large sample size then you are crushing it.

I've gone maybe 2 months beating games for 20bb/hr but that is just running hot, or in other words, having little to no run bad (ie having one losing session out of 15 to 20 in a month).
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:08 PM   #3269
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Everyone on this website has a winrate of 15bb+ apparently.
I said 10-12 bb. You said 15bb. Yeah kinda thebsame thing

W/e Gl in 2013 all.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:12 PM   #3270
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

fwiw, I am beating the game for 13bb/hr this year.

Spoiler:
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:14 PM   #3271
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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fwiw, I am beating the game for 13bb/hr this year.

Spoiler:
See!!! Lol...gl
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:50 PM   #3272
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I beat 2/5 for 15k per hour. I doubled up my first hand and racked up. Done for the year.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:17 AM   #3273
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I beat 2/5 for 15k per hour. I doubled up my first hand and racked up. Done for the year.
Lessons please?
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:51 AM   #3274
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Go all in and win. Key is to manipulate the board so that you have the nuts.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:57 AM   #3275
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Here's a question for you bankroll junkies:

Is there anyone who plays professionally, or at least semi-professionally that does NOT add to their bankroll after winning sessions. What I mean by this, is there anyone who is comfortable playing 2/5 with X amount of buy-ins (probably 25+) and uses the money made while playing for personal luxuries/expenses.

Just curious is all
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