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Old 10-20-2010, 12:53 AM   #276
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

yup, long sessions ftw
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:09 PM   #277
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Low Limit Live Full Time $/Hr?

Hey there, not sure if this is the right place, but I was wondering what the average $/hr is in a $1/2 and $2/5 live over a pretty large sample size? I'm assuming that the $1/2 and $2/5 games are very soft, as they always seem to be in casinos.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:10 PM   #278
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Re: Low Limit Live Full Time $/Hr?

so many threads about this just search a little
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:32 PM   #279
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

i think playing peak hours a winrate at 1/2 of 25$/hr is definitely possible
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:48 PM   #280
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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i think playing peak hours a winrate at 1/2 of 25$/hr is definitely possible
I agree. If anyone with a small-ish bankroll and a job that is looking to start playing poker on the side, definitely start out playing Friday/Sat nights. Lower risk of ruin/higher profits.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:31 AM   #281
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Hey there, not sure if this is the right place, but I was wondering what the average $/hr is in a $1/2 and $2/5 live over a pretty large sample size? I'm assuming that the $1/2 and $2/5 games are very soft, as they always seem to be in casinos.
this has been answered like six times already In This Thread.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:20 PM   #282
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I was going to try out the Cardplayer tracker, but I get an error trying to log in:

There was a problem serving the requested page.
You can try refreshing the page; the problem may be temporary.
If you entered the URL in by hand, double check that it is correct.
We've been notified of the problem and will do our best to make sure it doesn't happen again!

Anybody else, or just me? It's been over a day.
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:56 PM   #283
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i think playing peak hours a winrate at 1/2 of 25$/hr is definitely possible
should be way higher than this on peek hours
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:10 AM   #284
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Way higher? Depending on stack sizes and game structure, I'd say that's probably as high as it gets, and that would be at a GREAT table.

Edit: Then again this is all speculation so who cares.

Last edited by ThaHero; 10-22-2010 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:26 PM   #285
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Way higher based on what? I can run $25/hour so long as I can cherry pick which hours to average. I not only cannot run anywhere near that but have no clue as to what sort of game you would have to construct to maintain such a winrate.

The reality is that a good regular is going to run between 5 and 8 big blinds per hour long term. There are a couple of reasons why people report such oversized rates.

1. Selective memory and denial. People only bother tracking their stats when they are running good. As soon as things go the other way they lose track. Others will simply subtract bad sessions from their stats because they feel entitled to do so if they were tilting, drunk, or tired, on the premise that they can actually beat the game for the higher winrate when playing solidly. Still others omit bad beats where they felt someone played wrong as if that also doesn't count.

2. Variance and sample size. Its a showdown game and regardless of style your results will deviate sharply from the norm (online or higher limits). So you couple that with the low number of hands actually played and you can easily see how recreational players can report sky high win rates over a relatively long calendar period. Many of these folks just assume that their results are typical when they are not sustainable. Even when giving it a full time shot it takes quite a while for results to settle into a range that you can have confidence in.

I won't exclude the likely fact that there are people playing with a skillset such that I can barely detect, much less understand it. I am sure they are out there. But it is plainly preposterous that its common to be able to get those sorts of results (12bb+ or way higher).

I think life is better approached with reasonable expectations.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:22 PM   #286
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Way higher based on what? I can run $25/hour so long as I can cherry pick which hours to average. I not only cannot run anywhere near that but have no clue as to what sort of game you would have to construct to maintain such a winrate.

The reality is that a good regular is going to run between 5 and 8 big blinds per hour long term. There are a couple of reasons why people report such oversized rates.

1. Selective memory and denial. People only bother tracking their stats when they are running good. As soon as things go the other way they lose track. Others will simply subtract bad sessions from their stats because they feel entitled to do so if they were tilting, drunk, or tired, on the premise that they can actually beat the game for the higher winrate when playing solidly. Still others omit bad beats where they felt someone played wrong as if that also doesn't count.

2. Variance and sample size. Its a showdown game and regardless of style your results will deviate sharply from the norm (online or higher limits). So you couple that with the low number of hands actually played and you can easily see how recreational players can report sky high win rates over a relatively long calendar period. Many of these folks just assume that their results are typical when they are not sustainable. Even when giving it a full time shot it takes quite a while for results to settle into a range that you can have confidence in.

I won't exclude the likely fact that there are people playing with a skillset such that I can barely detect, much less understand it. I am sure they are out there. But it is plainly preposterous that its common to be able to get those sorts of results (12bb+ or way higher).

I think life is better approached with reasonable expectations.


I can tell you that without a doubt, at 2/5 casino FR live NL, that decent grinders will avg ~5 bb per hour, and excellent players (top handful) will avg ~8 bb/hr if they play like 5 days/week 8 hrs/day. (playing thru great games as well as some of the more marginal early in the week games.) Playing only Thurs nite thru Sunday nite, these same players would win possibly 7 thru upwards of 12 bb/hr respectively. And im not guessing on this. At least this is what is routine at Bellagio 2/5.
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:17 PM   #287
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i only play 1/2 on peeks hours on the weekend.

7pm-2am on friday nights and
3pm- 2am on saturday.

over about 240hours im averaging 38$/hr. i record every session, losing or non

if you grind during the week, sure 25$/hr is probley correct. but i said only during peek hours
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:04 PM   #288
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by jolyroger View Post
Way higher based on what? I can run $25/hour so long as I can cherry pick which hours to average. I not only cannot run anywhere near that but have no clue as to what sort of game you would have to construct to maintain such a winrate.

The reality is that a good regular is going to run between 5 and 8 big blinds per hour long term. There are a couple of reasons why people report such oversized rates.

1. Selective memory and denial. People only bother tracking their stats when they are running good. As soon as things go the other way they lose track. Others will simply subtract bad sessions from their stats because they feel entitled to do so if they were tilting, drunk, or tired, on the premise that they can actually beat the game for the higher winrate when playing solidly. Still others omit bad beats where they felt someone played wrong as if that also doesn't count.

2. Variance and sample size. Its a showdown game and regardless of style your results will deviate sharply from the norm (online or higher limits). So you couple that with the low number of hands actually played and you can easily see how recreational players can report sky high win rates over a relatively long calendar period. Many of these folks just assume that their results are typical when they are not sustainable. Even when giving it a full time shot it takes quite a while for results to settle into a range that you can have confidence in.

I won't exclude the likely fact that there are people playing with a skillset such that I can barely detect, much less understand it. I am sure they are out there. But it is plainly preposterous that its common to be able to get those sorts of results (12bb+ or way higher).

I think life is better approached with reasonable expectations.
With a decent sample size behind me, I have run way higher at 1/3 than 8bb/hour.
However, I play almost exclusively peak hours in deep games, and I am fairly certain those two factors skew my average. I feel pretty certain that many here like yourself could do the same in the same time frame/games.
What little I have played at non-peak times has trended well back into the 7-11 bb range.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:27 PM   #289
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Nobody else find it amazing that everyone who posts here runs so well?
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:01 PM   #290
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Nobody else find it amazing that everyone who posts here runs so well?
no i dont run well. i have alot of big losing sessions, you just have to have very good value bets in 1/2 games. and i only play during peek hours
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:50 PM   #291
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A. U've been tracking urself for ~4 months

B. Some of us have to put in a lot more hours (and not all at prime times)

C. Overall ur running good (trust me)
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:56 PM   #292
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Nobody else find it amazing that everyone who posts here runs so well?
Not really. Would you register an account to report to the world that you were +$437 after 6 months?
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:00 PM   #293
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Would you register an account to report to the world that you were +$437 after 6 months?
lol... well I do see tons of threads about 30BI downswings $1/$2
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:25 PM   #294
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lol... well I do see tons of threads about 30BI downswings $1/$2
£1/1
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:44 PM   #295
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Nobody else find it amazing that everyone who posts here runs so well?
My guess is those who run bad to "meh" won't admit it.
Personally, while I can beat a 1/2 $200 cap buyin game, I don't think I could for any more than 6-10 bb over time, and getting to 10 would take some work.
A no cap game at peak hours is the only way I can win big, and I admit it. It helps that the vast majority there let me make little mistakes, and I tend to make theirs big mistakes. My last session I booked a $1k win over 12 hours. I ran decent, but more importantly villains saved me $500 by not value towning the crap out of me.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:16 AM   #296
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I not only cannot run anywhere near that but have no clue as to what sort of game you would have to construct to maintain such a winrate.
this is not evidence that people can't run $25/hr. i, personally, run over this amount. however, i mostly play 2/5 and 5/10 (and beat those games soundly), so i probably have a much more advanced skill set than "typical" 1/2 live winning players.

$25/hr at 1/2 is a great rate. you have to be a skilled and dedicated player to get there. but at the same time, most players who are good enough to beat the game for this much don't hang around long, because they build a roll and move to bigger games.

on the other hand, decent players who can (do) play only peak times should certainly be able to see $25/hr. these are players who could probably beat the game for $10-15/hr across the board, but peak game selection really does make that much difference.
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:20 AM   #297
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How much could a good player expect to make @ 1/2?

I play almost always 1/2 NL, $200 max in the casino. About 12-15 hours a week. Over the last year, I have been keeping track of my hourly rate. Right now, I am about $9-$10 an hour. I assume 30-33 hands an hour which puts me actually @ 12-13 big blinds every 100 hands. Over a year that leaves me about 25K hands, which should be statistically significant but maybe I'm just running good, have had a lucky draw on tables, etc.

I think, I have done some reading that indicates the most you can expect to make in NL (not counting real deep stack) is 10 big blind/100. While I consider myself a winning and decent poker player, I don't think I'm as good as some of the elite players that play at the 1/2 level in my casino.

If you are a good player, what can you expect to make in an hour? I'm not even talking about an "elite" player. I mean, I can only beat .25/.50 NL online for about 3 big blind per 100 hands.

Comparing 1/2 NL to limit, at what limit threshold (for a good player) could you expect to make the same if not more than NL? 4/8? 5/10?
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:21 PM   #298
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What's all this talk about "peak hours" as if a different set of records/standards should be kept for time of day? Sure, you prob can make a little more playing evenings instead of, say from 9am to 2pm. But who is serious about the game and plays those hours only? Who do you know puts in 20-30 hours a week or more playing mornings only? Maybe a bunch of retired 80 year olds. And who takes poker serious but never plays on weekends?
The fact is we all play weekends. We all play evenings. Why try to classify players results based on this?
It may be nitpicking, but IMO there is no such thing as "peak hours". There are "normal" hours (evenings and weekends). And there are "off times" (9-1am).
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:47 PM   #299
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What's all this talk about "peak hours" as if a different set of records/standards should be kept for time of day? Sure, you prob can make a little more playing evenings instead of, say from 9am to 2pm. But who is serious about the game and plays those hours only? Who do you know puts in 20-30 hours a week or more playing mornings only? Maybe a bunch of retired 80 year olds. And who takes poker serious but never plays on weekends?
The fact is we all play weekends. We all play evenings. Why try to classify players results based on this?
It may be nitpicking, but IMO there is no such thing as "peak hours". There are "normal" hours (evenings and weekends). And there are "off times" (9-1am).
the smartest time to play is at night and weekend. y grind it out with old nits. you can still get 20-30 hours in on weekend. its the best time to play.

yes if you a grinder than it doesnt matter. but you can still put in good amount of time on weekends
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:26 AM   #300
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Nobody else find it amazing that everyone who posts here runs so well?
In the heirarchy of live game players, I imagine that people who bother to read these threads fall in the top half of live players. A lot of the big losers in 1/2 games are degens who don't think too critically about their play and push themselves to improve or study. This is almost like saying "isn't it strange that people at the gym at 5AM are in really good shape?"
People who browse more than they post probably have much more modest win rates than those starting threads (Brag? I'm running $6/hr at live 1/2 no limit over like 25 hours this month) Plus there is an exageration factor I'm sure.
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