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Old 11-10-2012, 11:58 PM   #2826
czechrebel
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Originally Posted by PolProf View Post
Honestly with that style you will still see 4-6 BI swings. ID aim for 10-15 BIs preferrably 20.
Thank you guys
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:05 AM   #2827
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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2k a sufficient bankroll to play 1/3, 300 Live NL, for a TAG... semi-LAG style?

Also, how long/how many hands must one play to get an good idea of ones $/hr.

Thanks in advance.
I suggest considering buying in for less than a full stack and playing a game specifically geared for your stack size, then adjusting to "normal" full or deep stack play when you build your stack to that point. There are strategies for playing a 65 bb stack for instance. That would enable you to have ten $200 buyins instead of 7.

I know there is a bias for saying always buy in full. But I think sometimes it makes sense to buy in for less. To me, reducing your risk of ruin if you have to stop playing if you lose your $2000 is one of those times. You can't make any money from poker if you can't afford to play because you busted out; that seems like a lot of "opportunity cost" to me.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:17 AM   #2828
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I suggest considering buying in for less than a full stack and playing a game specifically geared for your stack size, then adjusting to "normal" full or deep stack play when you build your stack to that point. There are strategies for playing a 65 bb stack for instance. That would enable you to have ten $200 buyins instead of 7.

I know there is a bias for saying always buy in full. But I think sometimes it makes sense to buy in for less. To me, reducing your risk of ruin if you have to stop playing if you lose your $2000 is one of those times. You can't make any money from poker if you can't afford to play because you busted out; that seems like a lot of "opportunity cost" to me.
I don't think buying in short will reduce variance. Isn't playing short pushing as much as a preflop edge as you can? Therefore you're getting it in a lot more pre and post in marginal spots because our spr will be lower = higher variance? (keep in mind pre flop is where the fish play their hand the best).


As to original question, it's definitely enough to take a shot. I play pretty laggy and have had 2 10BI downswings in the last 600 hours, with a few 3-5 BI downswings. So if you're okay with the ROR and don't mind there being a chance you bust then go for it. Just make sure you have tilt issues down.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:38 PM   #2829
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

yep..
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:16 PM   #2830
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

yeah, buying in short is a lot more high-variance than just buying in for full IME.

Also, when I have a regular or deep stack, I am rarely in a position to call or bet more than half of it. So there's that.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:47 PM   #2831
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Re: Nursing a Small Bankroll

Quick answer, it really depends on your skill level and if you are a proven winning player.

Ideally, you want to play at tables with plenty of money on them and lots of action and bonus points if players are talking and drinking it up.

Since your bankroll is $3k, i'd shy away from uncapped tables. Sitting down with $200 when the entire table is at $500+ isn't optimal. So, i'd advise you just go with the $200 capped buy-in and then after you've played a few sessions there and run your roll up to $4k then give the uncapped room a try. When you sit down at an uncapped table, its important you buy-in for the table average. You need to have enough chips to generate fold equity and to matter. Worst thing you can be at an uncapped table is the "little stack that doesn't matter".


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...kroll-1160302/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...hread-1252775/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...hread-1241606/
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:21 PM   #2832
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Re: Nursing a Small Bankroll

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Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
Worst thing you can be at an uncapped table is the "little stack that doesn't matter".
Why? To me I find that a pretty good spot, you just need to remember that and bluff/cbet in certain spots less.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:07 PM   #2833
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Re: Nursing a Small Bankroll

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Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
Quick answer, it really depends on your skill level and if you are a proven winning player.

Ideally, you want to play at tables with plenty of money on them and lots of action and bonus points if players are talking and drinking it up.

Since your bankroll is $3k, i'd shy away from uncapped tables. Sitting down with $200 when the entire table is at $500+ isn't optimal. So, i'd advise you just go with the $200 capped buy-in and then after you've played a few sessions there and run your roll up to $4k then give the uncapped room a try. When you sit down at an uncapped table, its important you buy-in for the table average. You need to have enough chips to generate fold equity and to matter. Worst thing you can be at an uncapped table is the "little stack that doesn't matter".


https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...kroll-1160302/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...hread-1252775/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...hread-1241606/
I'm pretty sure this is wrong. pretty sure you can realize the same edge in this spot as a 40bb stack has at a 100bb table. although to shortstack, buying in at 60bb when everybody else has 250bb seems best off the top of my head.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:43 PM   #2834
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Re: Nursing a Small Bankroll

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If i get felted on a $200 buy in...i lose only 7% of my bankroll...and since i won't be going all in without the nuts...if i lose that 7% i will be able to stand up, review my notes, figure out what i did wrong, and go back and try again.

Playing for, say, $500 would be a little over 16% of my total bankroll....

Yes, i'm losing potential value in the long run...but i'm reducing my risk of ruin.
you're not losing 'potential value', you're capping your winrate at breakeven.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:12 PM   #2835
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Re: Nursing a Small Bankroll

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Originally Posted by almostPRO View Post
If i get felted on a $200 buy in...i lose only 7% of my bankroll...and since i won't be going all in without the nuts...if i lose that 7% i will be able to stand up, review my notes, figure out what i did wrong, and go back and try again.

Playing for, say, $500 would be a little over 16% of my total bankroll....

Yes, i'm losing potential value in the long run...but i'm reducing my risk of ruin.
If you're not topping your stack off when it goes well below your $200 buy in, and you're not getting your stack in the center without the nuts, you won't be winning.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:28 PM   #2836
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Re: Nursing a Small Bankroll

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Originally Posted by almostPRO View Post
If i get felted on a $200 buy in...i lose only 7% of my bankroll...and since i won't be going all in without the nuts...if i lose that 7% i will be able to stand up, review my notes, figure out what i did wrong, and go back and try again.

Playing for, say, $500 would be a little over 16% of my total bankroll....

Yes, i'm losing potential value in the long run...but i'm reducing my risk of ruin.
lol. Love to be in this game
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:07 AM   #2837
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Re: Nursing a Small Bankroll

Quote:
Originally Posted by almostPRO View Post
If i get felted on a $200 buy in...i lose only 7% of my bankroll...and since i won't be going all in without the nuts...if i lose that 7% i will be able to stand up, review my notes, figure out what i did wrong, and go back and try again.

Playing for, say, $500 would be a little over 16% of my total bankroll....

Yes, i'm losing potential value in the long run...but i'm reducing my risk of ruin.
so, you go allin on the turn with the nut flush against a set and the board pairs? do you get your money back? you can't guarantee yourself a victory every time you are all-in.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:05 AM   #2838
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

One of the reasons buying in short is good for a small BR is that it limits your mistakes, especially if you are unfamiliar with the player pool. 100bb can create some awkward stack-pot sizes which can be tricky to play without reads. 65-75bb seems to be a sweet spot where you can comfortably stack off with your overpairs and tpgk, which are the hands you're trying to make with a shorter stack. Also, big stacks tend not to adjust much to shortstacks which makes it easier to double up when you have a hand.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:54 AM   #2839
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

IIRC from the online days, stats showed that buying in short doesn't decrease monetary swings. In fact, it increased them.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:57 AM   #2840
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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IIRC from the online days, stats showed that buying in short doesn't decrease monetary swings. In fact, it increased them.
this
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:01 AM   #2841
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IIRC from the online days, stats showed that buying in short doesn't decrease monetary swings. In fact, it increased them.
BUT, it does minimize the effect of mistakes on your winrate/loserate.
Also, buying in short requires less postflop skill to play optimally b/c you can stack off alot lighter

FWIW, I always buyin for 250bb but I would definatly recomend a beginner starts off by buying in short. Well tbh I recomend a beginner doesnt even start live poker until they can beat nl50 or preferably nl100 online but thats another discussion.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:05 AM   #2842
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BUT, it does minimize the effect of mistakes on your winrate/loserate.
Also, buying in short requires less postflop skill to play optimally b/c you can stack off alot lighter
but it misses out on the most profitable and least amount of risk part of poker. da river
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:18 AM   #2843
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

One thing I like about playing a 60bb stack is that it makes it very difficult for villains to make plays on me (obviously more of a concern if you are playing with crazy asians than if you are playing with old stations).
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:21 AM   #2844
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One thing I like about playing a 60bb stack is that it makes it very difficult for villains to make plays on me (obviously more of a concern if you are playing with crazy asians than if you are playing with old stations).
lol, crazy Asians.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:11 AM   #2845
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Any way to keep track of hand histories without being a laptop kid... Don't see it being viable with an iPhone and I don't know the rules about keeping track of hand histories etc in my local card room. Kind of scared to browse 2+2 while there tbh.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:36 AM   #2846
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Any way to keep track of hand histories without being a laptop kid... Don't see it being viable with an iPhone and I don't know the rules about keeping track of hand histories etc in my local card room. Kind of scared to browse 2+2 while there tbh.
I analyse hands on 2+2 while waiting for a seat at my local cardroom or if I am really bored at the table all the time. 2+2 has a good iPhone app and there are no rules against it that I know off.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:22 AM   #2847
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I analyse hands on 2+2 while waiting for a seat at my local cardroom or if I am really bored at the table all the time. 2+2 has a good iPhone app and there are no rules against it that I know off.
sick. didn't know this. thanks
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:45 AM   #2848
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sick. didn't know this. thanks
Really? 99% of the time I am on my android app. The online website is the nut low and probably drives away alot of the newcomers.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:10 PM   #2849
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Brag: winning at $42/hour through my first 200 hours of 2/5
Beat: it took 6 months of play to get that volume.

I think I need to focus on living healthier so I can increase my mental endurance. Most of my sessions are 2-5 hours long, which tends to be when I feel like I can't play my best anymore. I need to make the most out of my sessions now, since I'm working 5 days a week.

Feast tonight, fit tomorrow!
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:55 PM   #2850
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Is there more than one app for android?

I find the one I use to be annoying with spoilers and HHs not working
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