Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em live cash games of all stakes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-05-2012, 03:02 PM   #2801
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,367
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by bip! View Post
Yes, your game will drop from A in those marathons - but at the same time you did actually have more complete history and read on the fish (even if not as good as it could be with 100% attention... i.e. 50% attention over 10 hours better than 100% over 3). You also have the opportunity for deep fish versus deep hero. All of these sessions inevitable include a deep fish giving away 200bb in some hand. When you play long, you are more likely to be deep when this happens. At a 10 hour session, you might be deep stacked for 6/10 hours, while at a 4 hour session, it might be 1 / 4... so better chance of fully fileting the fish : )
Those sound like good points, and make perfect sense, but I don't think it's actually what has occurred (at least in my more recent longer sessions that I can recall a bit better).

a) Players come and go / table change / etc. quite frequently. For the most part (with a couple of exceptions), I think I play the same amount time on average against a particular villain in my long sessions as my normal sessions.

b) I certainly agree there is more opportunity for deepstack play, but I actually don't recall any real deepstack hands that netted me huge results. I basically just nickel and dimed it, for the most part.

But I'm basing this purely on my hazy unaccurate memories of sessions, so I could be wrong.

GnickelanddimeingmywaytoafortuneG
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #2802
bip!
Slow Pony
 
bip!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: not on urban dictionary...
Posts: 13,669
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Well gobbledy - then it could get even better! Keep it up! Curious - you play 2/5 ever or always 1/3?
bip! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 04:02 PM   #2803
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,367
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by bip! View Post
Well gobbledy - then it could get even better! Keep it up! Curious - you play 2/5 ever or always 1/3?
The 2/5 game rarely goes here. I've never played in it (which is why I never respond in 2/5 threads), maybe one day I'll consider it if the lineup looks right. I'm pretty happy with 1/3 right now, especially since I just do this recreationally.
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 04:09 PM   #2804
bip!
Slow Pony
 
bip!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: not on urban dictionary...
Posts: 13,669
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
The 2/5 game rarely goes here. I've never played in it (which is why I never respond in 2/5 threads), maybe one day I'll consider it if the lineup looks right. I'm pretty happy with 1/3 right now, especially since I just do this recreationally.
Ahh.. I see. I was just curious because you likely have built a good roll at 1/3 and I saw in another thread you were going to complete 1000 hrs there. Wondered why it was exclusive, but understand now. Anyways, at rooms that have both, sometimes the 1/3 is still the more profitable spot per hour... so many fish want to play the smallest game (and rightfully so).
bip! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 04:25 PM   #2805
cUinAC
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

kind of a pointless question but im trying to keep track of every dollar i win or lose from poker now. Ive been tracking my w/l for about a month and about 2 months ago i was sitting at caesers when the bad beat hit at harrahs. I got 1,100 which was def nice but im not sure if i should consider it part of my roll? I have def clocked enough hours that i have easily paid 1,100 in rake/badbeat money and if i was playing online and got a rackback im pretty sure i would say its part of my roll. Also, i always calculate gas/tolls into my sessions.

So do you think i should think of it as rakeback money or should i look at it like money i got completely not from poker? It doesnt feel like i deserve it in a way because i didnt win to get it but, i know if i played online and got rakeback i would def think that was my money.

Thoughts?
cUinAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 04:29 PM   #2806
PoppaTMan
veteran
 
PoppaTMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,864
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It should definitely go into your roll, as you're paying rake for those types of promos.
PoppaTMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 04:30 PM   #2807
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,367
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by cUinAC View Post
kind of a pointless question but im trying to keep track of every dollar i win or lose from poker now. Ive been tracking my w/l for about a month and about 2 months ago i was sitting at caesers when the bad beat hit at harrahs. I got 1,100 which was def nice but im not sure if i should consider it part of my roll? I have def clocked enough hours that i have easily paid 1,100 in rake/badbeat money and if i was playing online and got a rackback im pretty sure i would say its part of my roll. Also, i always calculate gas/tolls into my sessions.

So do you think i should think of it as rakeback money or should i look at it like money i got completely not from poker? It doesnt feel like i deserve it in a way because i didnt win to get it but, i know if i played online and got rakeback i would def think that was my money.

Thoughts?
I don't like including BBJ winnings in my poker winrate calcs cuz they can really throw things off (i.e. otherwise I'm winning ~$25/hr at 2/4 limit, which is just slightly unreasonable to say the least). Sure, we pay the toke for the BBJ, but I kinda just chalk that up to the cost of doing business.

On my spreadsheet, I have separate columns for winrate/totals/etc. that don't include the BBJ winnings, and then further columns which do include the BBJ winnings.
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 05:12 PM   #2808
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,883
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by cUinAC View Post
kind of a pointless question but im trying to keep track of every dollar i win or lose from poker now. Ive been tracking my w/l for about a month and about 2 months ago i was sitting at caesers when the bad beat hit at harrahs. I got 1,100 which was def nice but im not sure if i should consider it part of my roll? I have def clocked enough hours that i have easily paid 1,100 in rake/badbeat money and if i was playing online and got a rackback im pretty sure i would say its part of my roll. Also, i always calculate gas/tolls into my sessions.

So do you think i should think of it as rakeback money or should i look at it like money i got completely not from poker? It doesnt feel like i deserve it in a way because i didnt win to get it but, i know if i played online and got rakeback i would def think that was my money.

Thoughts?
Hit a table share once for $4k. Added most of the cash to my roll, and recorded it in my log.
BUT I listed it as a separate GAME. So my overall winnings / rate reflect it, but when I filter by game type it doesn't change my $1/2 or $2/5 results, it shows up as a separate row.
Angrist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 06:43 PM   #2809
AEPpoker
banned
 
AEPpoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: the banks of the rubicon
Posts: 3,248
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by cUinAC View Post
kind of a pointless question but im trying to keep track of every dollar i win or lose from poker now. Ive been tracking my w/l for about a month and about 2 months ago i was sitting at caesers when the bad beat hit at harrahs. I got 1,100 which was def nice but im not sure if i should consider it part of my roll? I have def clocked enough hours that i have easily paid 1,100 in rake/badbeat money and if i was playing online and got a rackback im pretty sure i would say its part of my roll. Also, i always calculate gas/tolls into my sessions.

So do you think i should think of it as rakeback money or should i look at it like money i got completely not from poker? It doesnt feel like i deserve it in a way because i didnt win to get it but, i know if i played online and got rakeback i would def think that was my money.

Thoughts?
You can't think of it like rakeback, because rakeback is steadier and more dependable. If you put this into your numbers at all its going to screw them up. So don't use it for stats.

As far as should it go into your roll -- certainly some should, especially if your roll needs it.

If your roll is already pretty healthy, its worth considering using the found money to do something poker related but not your normal thing. Take a couple buyin shot at 2/5 or play a couple decent MTTs
AEPpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:22 PM   #2810
fun101
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,239
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I personally would deposit it into my bank account but not record it in my poker tracking software. My poker BR is pretty healthy for the game I play in (especially with FTP back ) so it would not go into my poker BR.
fun101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 03:53 PM   #2811
bubonicplay
Pooh-Bah
 
bubonicplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LV, $$
Posts: 3,934
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If its small like less than a $100 i will throw it in my stack and record it. Might even use it to create action.
bubonicplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 06:56 PM   #2812
DK Barrel
Concept of the Week author
 
DK Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: no gamble, no future
Posts: 6,798
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Bankroll yes, winnings no.

You'd need 10,000 years of data for jackpots to make anything close to useful statistical knowledge, so tracking it tells you absolutely nothing. Unless you want to brag to your results-oriented friends that you've made $20,000 in only two months of playing 1/2
DK Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 07:51 PM   #2813
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,883
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
Bankroll yes, winnings no.

You'd need 10,000 years of data for jackpots to make anything close to useful statistical knowledge, so tracking it tells you absolutely nothing. Unless you want to brag to your results-oriented friends that you've made $20,000 in only two months of playing 1/2
Not statistically relevant no, but handy for taxes.
Angrist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 04:40 PM   #2814
PolProf
grinder
 
PolProf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Vegas shortly
Posts: 689
Trying to see if I'm a winning player or not

Just finished 33 hours at a casino over 4 days. Had a disastrous 3.5 bi downswing over about 5.5 hours.

These are my numbers so far at 1/2 live play

Sessions : 61
W/L: $3166
Hours: 231.5
Hourly: 13.68
S/D: 98.87

I know 500 hours right? This doesn't seem like much of an hourly at 1/2 of course that drop really killed my hourly. Any thoughts?
PolProf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 04:55 PM   #2815
Under_the_Radar
adept
 
Under_the_Radar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: seat #7
Posts: 1,078
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolProf View Post
Trying to see if I'm a winning player or not

Just finished 33 hours at a casino over 4 days. Had a disastrous 3.5 bi downswing over about 5.5 hours.

These are my numbers so far at 1/2 live play

Sessions : 61
W/L: $3166
Hours: 231.5
Hourly: 13.68
S/D: 98.87

I know 500 hours right? This doesn't seem like much of an hourly at 1/2 of course that drop really killed my hourly. Any thoughts?
Polprof, your numbers seem fine to me -seems like accurate and honest numbers. $13 bucks an hour playing $1/2 is good -if you can maintain for a long time. *Not everyone is going to have the "highest" win rates posible*

You gotta filter a lot of whats posted on here. Kindly keep in mind the overwhelming majority of people who like to talk/post/chat about thier win rate are liars, more times than not win rates are lied about.
Under_the_Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #2816
bip!
Slow Pony
 
bip!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: not on urban dictionary...
Posts: 13,669
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Back before online - 300 hours used to be the mark used to determine profitable or not... games were also very soft then. I would say with some confidence that you are profitable. You seem to be low variance though. I have -3 BI swings all the time (like every 20 hours of play involves some period like that).
bip! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:58 PM   #2817
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,367
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Under_the_Radar View Post
You gotta filter a lot of whats posted on here. Kindly keep in mind the overwhelming majority of people who like to talk/post/chat about thier win rate are liars, more times than not win rates are lied about.
M already made a good point about this, which is basically that people who seek out / actively participate in these types of forums are typically on the winning end of the scale, and those who further willingly disclose their winrate will be even on the higher end of the scale of these. It's a built in bias. FWIW, I usually take the winrates in this thread at face value unless the write up seems fishy.
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:23 PM   #2818
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
LLSNL FF Champ '13
 
ibelieveyouoweme$80k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wentzylvania baby
Posts: 12,851
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by PolProf View Post
Trying to see if I'm a winning player or not

Just finished 33 hours at a casino over 4 days. Had a disastrous 3.5 bi downswing over about 5.5 hours.

These are my numbers so far at 1/2 live play

Sessions : 61
W/L: $3166
Hours: 231.5
Hourly: 13.68
S/D: 98.87

I know 500 hours right? This doesn't seem like much of an hourly at 1/2 of course that drop really killed my hourly. Any thoughts?
Any profit at $1/$2 is good. It means you are beating the game. You are winning almost 7BBs per hour. That's nice.

I am somewhere around there this year. Let me go check.

Yep

Hours: 686
Year to date: +$9,187

Hourly: 13.39


Now, that was only about $9 or $10 per hour as of July 1 or so and I've been working hard to increasing that number. I was $90/hr in September over about 30 hours.

Again I think as long as you are winning, it means you have an edge on the game.
ibelieveyouoweme$80k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:51 PM   #2819
Sol Reader
The Situation
 
Sol Reader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: See PG&C Thread. @IsoAcq
Posts: 9,380
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

lol sour grapes ITT.
Sol Reader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:55 PM   #2820
Sol Reader
The Situation
 
Sol Reader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: See PG&C Thread. @IsoAcq
Posts: 9,380
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I played dhcg in Starcraft a bit before. I was Protoss and he was Terran. I started beating him every game so he started saying that Protoss is overpowered and impossible to beat, and stopped trying, and just gave up whenever he faced Terran.

Cliffs: Let's just assume with no evidence at all that anything that's difficult is impossible/made up. Winning attitude right there.
Sol Reader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:52 PM   #2821
SeaUlater
banned
 
SeaUlater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,797
dhcg running away, making excuses, and not being honest to himself?

No way, that doesn't sound like him at all.
SeaUlater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 10:56 PM   #2822
czechrebel
centurion
 
czechrebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 168
2k a sufficient bankroll to play 1/3, 300 Live NL, for a TAG... semi-LAG style?

Also, how long/how many hands must one play to get an good idea of ones $/hr.

Thanks in advance.
czechrebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 11:06 PM   #2823
bubonicplay
Pooh-Bah
 
bubonicplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LV, $$
Posts: 3,934
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

it will work unless you bust it, only one way to find out.
bubonicplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 11:22 PM   #2824
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
LLSNL FF Champ '13
 
ibelieveyouoweme$80k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wentzylvania baby
Posts: 12,851
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by czechrebel View Post
2k a sufficient bankroll to play 1/3, 300 Live NL, for a TAG... semi-LAG style?

Also, how long/how many hands must one play to get an good idea of ones $/hr.

Thanks in advance.
it is less than 7 buyins ... can you win? yes. your chances of going bust are significantly higher, though.
ibelieveyouoweme$80k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 11:45 PM   #2825
PolProf
grinder
 
PolProf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Vegas shortly
Posts: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by czechrebel View Post
2k a sufficient bankroll to play 1/3, 300 Live NL, for a TAG... semi-LAG style?

Also, how long/how many hands must one play to get an good idea of ones $/hr.

Thanks in advance.
Honestly with that style you will still see 4-6 BI swings. ID aim for 10-15 BIs preferrably 20.
PolProf is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive