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Old 09-21-2021, 06:32 PM   #25626
johnny_on_the_spot
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Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqueray View Post
Can’t imagine anyone who would study for hours & finally get 5 hours to play poker and not spew.

It’s hard enough to play tight and fold for people who can play daily.

But serious poker means not folding, right? Good luck.

I definitely feel like I have gotten more patient with the knowledge that I have the ability to play more sessions on a regular basis. Back when I could only play like once every other week or so I sometimes felt like I would play hands suboptimally, both too fast or too slow at times. Also knowing that a loss would potentially be the last poker session on my mind for weeks was brutal from a mindset standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
FWIW, I'm a 'rec' player (I played for a living for a year, and I've won six figures playing poker, but it's not my job and never will be), and I've spent at least a thousand dollars on learning poker, probably more like $1500.
And I didn't need to do that, to get to where I am. But I wanted to do it, cause learning poker is fun. And I'm rather confident that I've made back what I spent on learning materials through improvements to my game

Poker is unique from a hobby perspective in that you can pay for training and turn around an make money from it in pretty short order. That’s very difficult to do from many other hobbies. (I know you’re (Ranma) aware, it’s more a comment for the people asking questions)

Last edited by johnny_on_the_spot; 09-21-2021 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:38 AM   #25627
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
Poker is unique from a hobby perspective in that you can pay for training and turn around an make money from it in pretty short order.
I would argue that you could simply study a lot of free / extremely cheap material and still do just fine. And if you're getting in very small hours overall, I'm not convinced that paying for material is really going to be worth it; you'd have to prove that the benefit of the paid material took you from "just fine" to "crusher" (and that without it there was no way you could have done it).

Course, everyone learns differently so whatever floats your boat. I'm obviously a cheap life nit.

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Old 09-22-2021, 11:44 AM   #25628
RoadtoPro
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

have invested healthy four figures into poker in last 12 months and plan to invest exponentially more w every passing year

sure it’s not quantifiable but pretty sure I got my $ worth (and more obv)
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Old 09-22-2021, 11:54 AM   #25629
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by RoadtoPro View Post
have invested healthy four figures into poker in last 12 months and plan to invest exponentially more w every passing year

sure it’s not quantifiable but pretty sure I got my $ worth (and more obv)
But you're doing that as a full time professional cranking out the hours as your ~only source of income.

OP is going to put in 250 hours per year as a rec.

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Old 09-22-2021, 12:48 PM   #25630
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Poker is a pretty unique hobby from the standpoint that you can make money off of it without any additional "work" relative to the hobby itself. You don't have to go out of your way trying to sell things that you make, or find clients, or anything other than just going to the table. I have no idea how I'd monetize hockey.

IMO most rec players would get the most bang for the buck just buying a bunch of poker books from 2008-2010. Small Stakes No-Limit Hold'em, Professional No-Limit Hold 'em: Volume I, etc. Pretty much anything from Ed Miller, some Sklansky. Would NOT go all the way back to Harrington.

For most of the players that I encounter at $1/2 $1/3 tables, that era of material is still super relevant. At $5/each for used books you can get a LOT of value for the equivalent of one bad river call.
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:45 PM   #25631
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I should hope that the recs in your game are making bad river calls that could pay for those books new.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:01 AM   #25632
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Buy in / bankroll question

I played my first live session since covid began, today. It has been about 18 months since I played live.

I played 1$/3$ NL.

The casino had increased the table maximum to $400 (133bb) over the course of the covid shutdown and reopening (it used to be $300). In fact I had withdrawn $400 from the ATM thinking the table max was $300 and that would give me a little bit to top off with.

Second issue, the pot was frequently straddled. I would estimate that at least 1/3 of the time the pot was straddled. One guy to my left always straddled my bb for $6 (2bb). Another guy always straddled his button for $11 (pot size). I think that the result was that the game played bigger than a normal 1/3 game.

The average raise was larger than normal also, most raises were either $10 dollars or $15 dollars.

So, question, ... does the frequent straddle and/or larger than normal raises impact the number of buy ins we bring with us? It seemed like I was burning through money fast. How many buy ins do you normally bring to a game.

If we are going to need 2-4 buy ins per game, does this impact our bankroll strategy?

Thanks.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:58 AM   #25633
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Re: Buy in / bankroll question

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Originally Posted by Magnum1111 View Post
I played my first live session since covid began, today. It has been about 18 months since I played live.

I played 1$/3$ NL.

The casino had increased the table maximum to $400 (133bb) over the course of the covid shutdown and reopening (it used to be $300). In fact I had withdrawn $400 from the ATM thinking the table max was $300 and that would give me a little bit to top off with.

Second issue, the pot was frequently straddled. I would estimate that at least 1/3 of the time the pot was straddled. One guy to my left always straddled my bb for $6 (2bb). Another guy always straddled his button for $11 (pot size). I think that the result was that the game played bigger than a normal 1/3 game.

The average raise was larger than normal also, most raises were either $10 dollars or $15 dollars.

So, question, ... does the frequent straddle and/or larger than normal raises impact the number of buy ins we bring with us? It seemed like I was burning through money fast. How many buy ins do you normally bring to a game.

If we are going to need 2-4 buy ins per game, does this impact our bankroll strategy?

Thanks.
Your approach is going to be a personal decision. I went through the same thing when I switched rooms to seek out bigger games. Now my main game is an uncapped 1/3 game that is almost always straddled. Stacks can range from $200 to $5k on any given day. I decided I wanted to be rolled x buy-ins for this game so I divide my roll by x and buy in for roughly that amount. Sometimes I'm the 300bb short stack at a deep game or sometimes I initially cover the table until it gets later and stacks get deeper.

I think game conditions affecting your bankroll strategy is a backwards way to look at it. The best approach is to first define your bankroll strategy and then see if this game is one that is a good fit for it. Or maybe think of it as how the game conditions affect your bankroll REQUIREMENTS.

Amount of buy-ins to bring per game I think is more of a mental thing, if the game is great then ideally you want a decent amount of buy-ins in case you run bad in the beginning. But if your in a game for 4 buy-ins and tilted because of it and that causes you to change the way your playing then its pointless.

Last edited by nutsornot; 09-24-2021 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:36 AM   #25634
gobbledygeek
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Re: Buy in / bankroll question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum1111 View Post
I played my first live session since covid began, today. It has been about 18 months since I played live.

I played 1$/3$ NL.

The casino had increased the table maximum to $400 (133bb) over the course of the covid shutdown and reopening (it used to be $300). In fact I had withdrawn $400 from the ATM thinking the table max was $300 and that would give me a little bit to top off with.

Second issue, the pot was frequently straddled. I would estimate that at least 1/3 of the time the pot was straddled. One guy to my left always straddled my bb for $6 (2bb). Another guy always straddled his button for $11 (pot size). I think that the result was that the game played bigger than a normal 1/3 game.

The average raise was larger than normal also, most raises were either $10 dollars or $15 dollars.

So, question, ... does the frequent straddle and/or larger than normal raises impact the number of buy ins we bring with us? It seemed like I was burning through money fast. How many buy ins do you normally bring to a game.

If we are going to need 2-4 buy ins per game, does this impact our bankroll strategy?

Thanks.
My 1/3 NL game plays exactly the same way. A $400 max BI (as of 2018 iirc, up from the previous $300). Also a lot of pots are straddled, especially since both UTG and Button are allowed the $6 straddle.

Way way way back on June 27, 2011 I booked my all-time biggest loss in the game for $1200, which also happened to be all of the money I had in my pocket at the time. I played the last 2 BIs horrible and punted them.

I took two things away from that experience.

One, it opened my eyes to the fact that I absolutely can not afford to go on tilt when things aren't going my way. This really helped me identify a spot where I most likely now handle way better than my opponents.

Two, I might not play my best when I know I have no more money in my pocket to play with and have the last of my money on the table. My solution? Since then, I now bring $2000 to the game. I've never come remotely close to this in-pocket limit, in fact only losing $1000+ just one other time since then, with even less of a chance of that happening since I went to BIing for just $200 in early 2017.

So, *if* you believe you play ok when stuck a bunch and things aren't going well (and definitely do not not punt stacks in this state), I believe it is best to have a ridiculous amount of BIs in your pocket (so long as you aren't worried about being jumped in the parking lot). Thus why I have a ridiculous 10 BIs in my pocket when I go to the casino. I think Tommy Angelo might even discuss this in-pocket money idea in Elements of Poker.

ETA: Also, withdrawing poker money from an ATM that has a withdrawal fee is a fish move, imo. So long as you feel comfortable with it, I would recommend keeping a decent poker stash in your house. I typically keep about ~$3K in the house; I top this up when it drops to ~$2K, and deposit excess when I get to ~$4K.

Ghello,mynameisGGandithasbeen565dayssinceI'velastp layedahandofpokerG
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:37 PM   #25635
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

My bread-and-butter game is a 2 (on the button)-3-5 game where a $10 straddle can be posted in any position. Four times out of five, the table agrees to play "winner straddle," where the winner of the previous pot posts the straddle for the next hand. Basically, the game becomes 2-3-5-10 played with a rock.

The buy-in cap is $1000 (200 bb before straddle, 100bb counting the straddle). The game gets a lot looser (which it should, but only a little, because effectively the [double] big blind has absolute position preflop), and the fishy players limp way too much, call too much when their limps get raised, and pay too much on the later streets with their lame-ass hands.

I buy-in for the max, top up when I drop below $1K, and get $2K out of the cage when first show up in the room. That's my stop-loss, and circumstances have to be special for me to get more chips out of the cage.
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Old 09-25-2021, 12:03 AM   #25636
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
My bread-and-butter game is a 2 (on the button)-3-5 game where a $10 straddle can be posted in any position. Four times out of five, the table agrees to play "winner straddle," where the winner of the previous pot posts the straddle for the next hand. Basically, the game becomes 2-3-5-10 played with a rock.

The buy-in cap is $1000 (200 bb before straddle, 100bb counting the straddle). The game gets a lot looser (which it should, but only a little, because effectively the [double] big blind has absolute position preflop), and the fishy players limp way too much, call too much when their limps get raised, and pay too much on the later streets with their lame-ass hands.

I buy-in for the max, top up when I drop below $1K, and get $2K out of the cage when first show up in the room. That's my stop-loss, and circumstances have to be special for me to get more chips out of the cage.
Sounds like a game I know in the Bay. Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Old 09-27-2021, 10:22 AM   #25637
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
My bread-and-butter game is a 2 (on the button)-3-5 game where a $10 straddle can be posted in any position. Four times out of five, the table agrees to play "winner straddle," where the winner of the previous pot posts the straddle for the next hand. Basically, the game becomes 2-3-5-10 played with a rock.

The buy-in cap is $1000 (200 bb before straddle, 100bb counting the straddle). The game gets a lot looser (which it should, but only a little, because effectively the [double] big blind has absolute position preflop), and the fishy players limp way too much, call too much when their limps get raised, and pay too much on the later streets with their lame-ass hands.

I buy-in for the max, top up when I drop below $1K, and get $2K out of the cage when first show up in the room. That's my stop-loss, and circumstances have to be special for me to get more chips out of the cage.
Thanks. that is what I was thinking of doing, is just bringing 2 buy ins. I play online poker every day and you know, I don't have to put any thought into buy ins or top off money because the money is already on the account and it auto tops off.

2 questions.

1. Do you think that since my game is 133bb max buy in that I should bring more than more than 2 buy ins? You are basically bringing 400 big blinds and if I bring 2 buy ins it is considerably less, 266bb.

2. Do you think this should impact the way I view my bankroll strategy?

(Just so you know, if this isn't apparent, I am basically a rec player, live. I used to play live quite a bit when I was single (4-5x/month). Now, I'm married with kids and I haven't played in 18 months because of covid. I would like to start playing again 2-3 times per month. I have a good job and make decent money but what I DO NOT have is a $20,000 roll that can be devoted exclusively to poker, nor do I have the kind of discretionary income where I can lose $800 dollars twice a month and not feel it, nor do I have the kind of wife who is going to think that is ok if it goes on for too long. Haha.

I was going to set aside $3k for a 1/3 bankroll to start with, with the ability to add to it. 10 buy ins has always been sufficient for me when playing online stakes. But, they have raised the max buy in to $400 so now I am putting together $4k.

I completely understand that most people recommend 20 buy ins and that pros recommend significantly more than that. I am not trying to go pro obviously. I also understand that lowering bankroll standards causes me to play a little more conservatively until I build up the roll a little bit. Understood. Over time, I would hope to build my bankroll up to 20 buy ins for $1/$3. That would be my goal.

****My concern is that if I am really going to liberally top-off and be willing to lose $800 every time I show up at the casino, maybe I should be considering 20 buy ins of $800 dollars as my goal, not 20 buy ins of $400, liewise, starting out-comfort money should be 10x$800, not 10x$400. What do you think? Thanks.
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Old 09-27-2021, 11:34 AM   #25638
gobbledygeek
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you have a good job/income, then mostly you don't have a bankroll issue (especially at the lowest stakes). In my just-shy-of-5000 hours (and holding) at 1/3 NL live, I've yet to officially book a $3K downswing (although admittedly I likely play a very low variance style). So instead it becomes an issue of whether you're expecting to win long term or lose long term, and if you're expecting to lose long term then simply a question of how much you're ok with losing.

Another thing you can consider is not buying in for the maximum. I do this myself in my 1/3 NL game, where I only BI for $200 (and keep it constantly topped off) instead of BIing for the maximum $400. My guess (?) is that this will keep the swings relatively mild overall (at least it has for me, although that might also have to do with my overall playing style). It also helps makes poker extremely simple where even a moran like me can win decently add it. And of course you can always change your mind later and BI for more if you think you have your feet well under you / the game is awesome / etc.

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Old 09-27-2021, 04:27 PM   #25639
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
If you have a good job/income, then mostly you don't have a bankroll issue (especially at the lowest stakes). In my just-shy-of-5000 hours (and holding) at 1/3 NL live, I've yet to officially book a $3K downswing (although admittedly I likely play a very low variance style). So instead it becomes an issue of whether you're expecting to win long term or lose long term, and if you're expecting to lose long term then simply a question of how much you're ok with losing.

Another thing you can consider is not buying in for the maximum. I do this myself in my 1/3 NL game, where I only BI for $200 (and keep it constantly topped off) instead of BIing for the maximum $400. My guess (?) is that this will keep the swings relatively mild overall (at least it has for me, although that might also have to do with my overall playing style). It also helps makes poker extremely simple where even a moran like me can win decently add it. And of course you can always change your mind later and BI for more if you think you have your feet well under you / the game is awesome / etc.

Ggoodluck!G

Thanks Gobbledygeek. BTW, I have read your lengthy thread. Love it. As for whether I'm expecting to win or lose long term, well, ..... I'm expecting to crush it of course. hahaha.
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Old 09-27-2021, 04:42 PM   #25640
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Magnum1111 View Post
Thanks. that is what I was thinking of doing, is just bringing 2 buy ins. I play online poker every day and you know, I don't have to put any thought into buy ins or top off money because the money is already on the account and it auto tops off.

2 questions.

1. Do you think that since my game is 133bb max buy in that I should bring more than more than 2 buy ins? You are basically bringing 400 big blinds and if I bring 2 buy ins it is considerably less, 266bb.
First, it is 400bbs if the straddle isn't on. The straddle is usually on, in which case it is 200bbs.

More importantly, there is a way that the size of the blinds has less to do with one's win rate than the size of the buy-ins. Many people (example: Bart Hanson) claim that in games with a buy-in cap, if you happen to double up, your win rate after the double is going to be higher than before, simply because when you do play for stacks, the stacks are going to be bigger.

So for bankroll and stop-loss purposes, I choose my guidelines based in how much I buy in for, not what the size of the blinds happen to be.

Quote:
2. Do you think this should impact the way I view my bankroll strategy?

(Just so you know, if this isn't apparent, I am basically a rec player, live. I used to play live quite a bit when I was single (4-5x/month). Now, I'm married with kids and I haven't played in 18 months because of covid. I would like to start playing again 2-3 times per month. I have a good job and make decent money but what I DO NOT have is a $20,000 roll that can be devoted exclusively to poker, nor do I have the kind of discretionary income where I can lose $800 dollars twice a month and not feel it, nor do I have the kind of wife who is going to think that is ok if it goes on for too long. Haha.

I was going to set aside $3k for a 1/3 bankroll to start with, with the ability to add to it. 10 buy ins has always been sufficient for me when playing online stakes. But, they have raised the max buy in to $400 so now I am putting together $4k.

I completely understand that most people recommend 20 buy ins and that pros recommend significantly more than that. I am not trying to go pro obviously. I also understand that lowering bankroll standards causes me to play a little more conservatively until I build up the roll a little bit. Understood. Over time, I would hope to build my bankroll up to 20 buy ins for $1/$3. That would be my goal.

****My concern is that if I am really going to liberally top-off and be willing to lose $800 every time I show up at the casino, maybe I should be considering 20 buy ins of $800 dollars as my goal, not 20 buy ins of $400, liewise, starting out-comfort money should be 10x$800, not 10x$400. What do you think? Thanks.
If you have disposable income that you are willing to spend on poker, and you are not trying to do this for a living or at least as a significant supplement to your income-excluding-poker, you do not actually need to have a bankroll as such.

A cash flow of disposable income can be the equivalent to a bankroll. Consider this thought-experiment (I am not actually recommending this as a bankroll management strategy!!!):

Suppose you have $200 per month disposable income that you are willing to put towards poker. Instead of saving it up until you have enough for a buy-in for the game you want to play, you do something different: you take a cash advance on a credit card of such size that the monthly interest payment on that cash advance equals $200. If the APR on your card is 18%, and your credit limit is sufficiently large, the amount you could borrow would be $13,333. That $13K can be seen as the bankroll-equivalent of your $200/month cash flow.

If you are a homeowner, you could get yourself a home equity line of credit and do the same thing, at a much more favorable interest rate -- the interest payments for which would be tax-deductable in the USA. Again, I am not actually recommending doing this. I am simply trying to demonstrate the equivalence of a cash flow and a bankroll.

In the end, though, bankrolls matter only to winners. If you cannot beat the game over time, no bankroll is big enough. If you can beat the game, and compute your win rate and variance, you can compute the size of a bankroll such that your risk of ruin is less than whatever number less than 1 you choose. And if you can replenish your poker fund next month, even "ruin" is a temporary setback.
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Old 09-27-2021, 06:09 PM   #25641
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I think stop-losses and stop-wins for that matter should be pretty much entirely about personal preference. The issue is really just about whether or not you're playing your A-game. If you find you struggle to play your A-game after losing a couple stacks, then that's your stop-loss. If you're still perfectly able to play your A-game when you hit your stop-loss, the stop-loss is essentially arbitrary and it's only function is to end your session earlier than you intended. Not that that's a bad thing, I've ended plenty of sessions early using a stop-loss or stop-win as an excuse because I wanted to go home and smoke weed with my wife.

Functionally far different from proper bankroll management where you can simulate things like RoR and downswings and can therefore approach it much more mathematically.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:19 PM   #25642
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
My bread-and-butter game is a 2 (on the button)-3-5 game where a $10 straddle can be posted in any position. .
Giving a shot to play twice a week that kind of game (2.5-2.5-5 to 12), 3rd blind goes on the button as a mississipi straddle which is optional but id say 50% of the hands post it. Min buy in is 250 with no max afaik, but decided to buy in for 500 everytime and topping up if below 400. Thought of leaving behind 12.5k which I hope will be enough.

Said to myself to try it for 200 hours which should be 4 to 5k hands, expecting to play them in 5 to 6 months. I've never been a cash pro, tho I have played husngs & spins professionally for the last 11 years.

I have this theory that a winning player on this game (which is the most popular where I live) will make at least 20/hr and that crushers maybe can make up to 60/hr. As it's sort of a side hustle, I will continue only if I can make at least 30/hr, but not sure if that threshold should be increased, given that my hourly online has been 40-60/hr for the last couple years. (playing live gives me the additional value of going outside and socializing a bit, hence it's fine if I make less but at least 30/hr playing live cash)

Anyways, where to get some info about what kind of winrates can be expected ?, u think wr will be benefited from the fact of having often a mississipi straddle ?
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Old 09-28-2021, 08:29 PM   #25643
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Another thing you can consider is not buying in for the maximum. I do this myself in my 1/3 NL game, where I only BI for $200 (and keep it constantly topped off) instead of BIing for the maximum $400. My guess (?) is that this will keep the swings relatively mild overall (at least it has for me, although that might also have to do with my overall playing style). It also helps makes poker extremely simple where even a moran like me can win decently add it. And of course you can always change your mind later and BI for more if you think you have your feet well under you / the game is awesome / etc.

Ggoodluck!G
I just started playing again and I tried buying in like this ($200 or $300 in 1/3 with extra to top up) and I really like it more than treating a BI as static. I think the commonality between what you and Alan do, and many others like Brad Owen, is topping up to the stack your comfortable with. What I liked about buying in this way is it allowed me to continuously play at a stack depth I was comfortable with so I could focus on my play, instead of worrying about my stack dwindling if I lost a pot. I watched a lot of folks last weekend nursing a short stack and ultimately not putting themselves in a good position to make their losses back because they weren't doing that... there's nothing worse than nursing a short stack forever to then not have enough money to maneuver when you get a hand.
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Old 09-30-2021, 12:43 PM   #25644
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by aftrglw View Post
What I liked about buying in this way is it allowed me to continuously play at a stack depth I was comfortable with
Yup, really no excuses for ever playing at a stack you don't want to (whatever it may be). There are even options for when you get deeper than you are comfortable with at a table you are uncomfortable at, such as switching to a smaller stacked / more comfortable looking table (or, if worse comes to worse, simply cashing out).

GcluelessBInoobG
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Old 10-08-2021, 01:57 AM   #25645
Pork Fri Rize
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Now down 6.5 buyins post covid in 350 hours just had a 1.5 hrs session after waiting for a seat 2 hours. Flopped Set under set in a single raised pot 5 ways on K95r . 55<99. Might have been able to fold given older guys back raise on flop after I C/R. Feel like an idiot and that I'm never gonna play out of this seeing as it's been so hard to have a night with plentiful decent games
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Old 10-08-2021, 11:03 AM   #25646
gobbledygeek
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize View Post
Now down 6.5 buyins post covid in 350 hours just had a 1.5 hrs session after waiting for a seat 2 hours. Flopped Set under set in a single raised pot 5 ways on K95r . 55<99. Might have been able to fold given older guys back raise on flop after I C/R. Feel like an idiot and that I'm never gonna play out of this seeing as it's been so hard to have a night with plentiful decent games
Did you play 55 how every other person in your game would play it? For example, did you limp it from up front / were one of the first callers of the raise? If so, no money really exchanged hands. And the more hands you play exactly like everyone else in your game would have played it (which may occur a lot in situations where there is no "plentiful decent games"), the more you are unlikely to win at all (due to rake).

Gjustsomethingtoconsider,imo,goodluck!G
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Old 10-08-2021, 11:55 AM   #25647
Pork Fri Rize
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Lol no I play 2/5 and called a raise In the bb 5 ways
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Old 10-08-2021, 03:03 PM   #25648
QuantumSurfer
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Fri Rize View Post
Now down 6.5 buyins post covid in 350 hours just had a 1.5 hrs session after waiting for a seat 2 hours. Flopped Set under set in a single raised pot 5 ways on K95r . 55<99. Might have been able to fold given older guys back raise on flop after I C/R. Feel like an idiot and that I'm never gonna play out of this seeing as it's been so hard to have a night with plentiful decent games
That happens. 6.5 BI ain't that bad either. I got ~600hrs post openings in so far. First 300 were breaking even & then I started running like Forrest Gump. Poker's wild. If you have a proven track-record, I wouldn't stress over this. Doing a bit of study always helps build confidence.
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Old 10-09-2021, 03:17 PM   #25649
BlueSpade84
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I would like to add a bankroll reminder. Many people are talking about their bankroll and also about withdrawing from the roll at a certain level.

REMEMBER your RoR calculation assumes you will NOT be withdrawing from your roll. So, yes a 20BI - 2000bb roll is generally sufficient to ensure a 90% chance of success ONLY IF you do not withdraw from it.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that you will never have a 20 BI downswing as a winning player.

In order to use the RoR calculation you must subtract your withdrawal from your winnings before calculating your win rate.

I know this is old news for most, but just a friendly reminder. I'm a 'crusher' with over 15bb/hr win rate over almost 2k hrs and have had multiple 20BI downswings.
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Old 10-09-2021, 09:29 PM   #25650
411Heelhook
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Multiple 20bi downswings over less than 2k hours and still maintaining a 15bb/hr winrate is actually kind of insane to me.
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