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Old 09-05-2020, 11:55 PM   #25076
timmay28
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Re: Rate My 2019 Live NL Hold'Em Cash Game Performance

you’re probably world class tbh
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Old 09-06-2020, 01:40 AM   #25077
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Re: Rate My 2019 Live NL Hold'Em Cash Game Performance

bout 25BB/100, crusher status, well done. Try to move up to 2/5 now and hit $40/hr, make a living. It'll be a little different, more preflop raisers and postflop aggression but you got this.
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Old 09-06-2020, 02:53 AM   #25078
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Re: Rate My 2019 Live NL Hold'Em Cash Game Performance

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you’re probably world class tbh
Sarcasm? I can take a joke.
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Old 09-06-2020, 03:02 AM   #25079
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Re: Rate My 2019 Live NL Hold'Em Cash Game Performance

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bout 25BB/100, crusher status, well done. Try to move up to 2/5 now and hit $40/hr, make a living. It'll be a little different, more preflop raisers and postflop aggression but you got this.
Thank you! I can't play live poker at the moment. I live in Canada, right next to the US border. No casinos are open yet and the border is closed. I have 4 casinos within 15 minutes from me too, so it's been rough not being able to go.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:40 AM   #25080
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Re: Rate My 2019 Live NL Hold'Em Cash Game Performance

Sample size isn't really big enough to make definitive conclusions but this is better than 95% of people or more. Honestly most 1|2 pools are so soft you can sustain even higher win-rates, but it's better to move up than to specialize at beating up extremely weak players.

BTW, 1|2 pros are almost non-existent, especially if there are bigger games in your area. Anyone good enough to make a living at 1|2 should move up within a year. There might be some semi-pros, but I suspect as you get better these players will start to look like fish.
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Old 09-06-2020, 10:07 PM   #25081
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Re: Win rate in relation to skill set

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I guess I should have clarified. The $3-$10 is a full kill that allows overs, usually $25 or $50. I typically do not do overs but will from time to time if it seems beneficial. I use Poker Analytics for tracking but can not seem to figure out how to view results by game. There has to be a way to separate results for limit and NL but I have not figured it out yet.

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I mean if your playing 50 dollar overs then you def could beat the game for 30/hr but then it's not really 5-10 LHE is it?

For those not familiar, overs increase the stakes of the game only for those who agree to play the increased stakes. So if you are playing 5-10 and are like let's play 50 overs... then the hands you play against other players who agree to overs are 25-50 while hands against people not playing overs is only 5-10...Multi-way you can keep track on the side and settle after the hand.
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Old 09-17-2020, 01:40 PM   #25082
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

How many online MTT’s do you think are needed before you can draw conclusions for the result? I know people generally use 1,000 for LLNLHE. Not sure on online MTT’s. Plus I play a variety of stakes, formats and games.

Thanks n
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:41 PM   #25083
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A couple hundred (of the same type) will probably give you a reasonable estimate of if you're a winner or a loser. But to define a win rate and long term expectation you probably need thousands.
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:51 PM   #25084
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It would depend heavily on the payout structure. For a DoN your ROI could converge fairly quickly, maybe only a few hundred to have a good idea. For a winner takes all from a field of 1000 you'd probably need millions, not doing the math though. I realize neither of these formats run for MTTs, but they are extremes to show a point.
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:32 PM   #25085
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I tracked between 250-300 MTT’s online within the last year and the results were all over the place for every sample of 50-100. Overall I think it’s very difficult to tell how big your edge is other than by noting how often you make opponents making mistakes.
My rule is that if I’m better than breakeven over a stretch of 50 or 100, then I get to keep playing them. Your money comes almost entirely from final tables, and in fields of 500-1000 it is stupid hard to get there.
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Old 09-17-2020, 04:31 PM   #25086
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ok thanks. I started playing online when COVID shut my local rooms down. I’ve always enjoyed MTT’s and online they’re convenient to play. I do OK at them but wasn’t sure if 500-600 data point were sufficient statistically. Thanks everyone.
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Old 11-08-2020, 01:44 AM   #25087
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Short winning sessions

Looking over about 1500 hours of playtime my avg session is 4 hours. If you remove all my monster losing sessions it's more like 3 hours. I have a tendency to hit n run i guess, but the reality is I often find myself playing 200-300BB deep within an hour or two. After that it's all downhill from there, so I guess opponents are making adjustments to me. I play a pretty loose game derived from my 6max online training, so my guess is I score a few good value spots on players before they learn how I play.

Personally I'm not even comfortable playing deep. Online I basically leave whenever I double up since losing a 600BB pot to a rivered gutshot just ruins my whole day. I dont like giving players the incentive to chase with such a wide range that I cant even put them on a hand. Plus players tend to play back at me because they're irritated with my aggression tendency so they're just looking to put a bad beat on me for a giant pot. Sounds great right? But since I dont really know how to play big stacks I'll just get in over my head with overpairs and sets that get outdrawn.

Common sense says I should obviously learn to play deep, but coming in at $40/hr playing 2/5 tells me **** all that noise, I'm winning well above the normal clip and should just stick to what I do best -- Full stack play then go south after I double up.

Am I stunting my growth here or is winning roughly 20bb/100 good 'nuff not to worry about it?
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Old 11-08-2020, 07:46 AM   #25088
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
LookingAm I stunting my growth here or is winning roughly 20bb/100 good 'nuff not to worry about it?
Yes
Only you can answer that. Why do you play?
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Old 11-08-2020, 11:56 AM   #25089
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Re: Short winning sessions

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Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
Looking over about 1500 hours of playtime my avg session is 4 hours. If you remove all my monster losing sessions it's more like 3 hours. I have a tendency to hit n run i guess, but the reality is I often find myself playing 200-300BB deep within an hour or two. After that it's all downhill from there, so I guess opponents are making adjustments to me. I play a pretty loose game derived from my 6max online training, so my guess is I score a few good value spots on players before they learn how I play.

Personally I'm not even comfortable playing deep. Online I basically leave whenever I double up since losing a 600BB pot to a rivered gutshot just ruins my whole day. I dont like giving players the incentive to chase with such a wide range that I cant even put them on a hand. Plus players tend to play back at me because they're irritated with my aggression tendency so they're just looking to put a bad beat on me for a giant pot. Sounds great right? But since I dont really know how to play big stacks I'll just get in over my head with overpairs and sets that get outdrawn.

Common sense says I should obviously learn to play deep, but coming in at $40/hr playing 2/5 tells me **** all that noise, I'm winning well above the normal clip and should just stick to what I do best -- Full stack play then go south after I double up.

Am I stunting my growth here or is winning roughly 20bb/100 good 'nuff not to worry about it?
based on the previous paragraph, i'm not sure bolded means what you think it means.

doubling up and leaving - not ideal, but not particularly scummy. you may get a rep for doing it, but again, people don't know your situation. it's completely plausible that you do have to leave and only come to play for short sessions

doubling up and taking money off the table to your pocket but continuing to play (ie, going south) - extremely scummy and probably considered cheating in most, if not every, room
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Old 11-09-2020, 01:02 AM   #25090
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Only you can answer the question of what winrate is good enough or what skills you *need*. Because it depends on your own goals and reasons for playing.

If you're just looking to have fun and make some extra scratch then there's no reason to grind it out for long sessions playing deep. Play a few hours, take a meal break and come back at a stack depth you're comfortable with.

If you're trying to play for a living then you'll want to expand your skillset to play better deep. And to play better over longer sessions.
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Old 11-09-2020, 12:40 PM   #25091
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

One workaround to going south (flat out cheating in most rooms) / leaving the poker room (or at least for the poker room allotted time before you are allowed to BI again) is to simply move to a table that is playing shorter. So yeah you'll be sitting 200bbs+ deep or whatever, but some tables have (most) everyone else sitting at 60bbs or whatever (where now you are back to shorter stack play in spite of sitting with a monster stack).

GcluelesstablechangingnoobG
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Old 11-09-2020, 06:26 PM   #25092
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The SoFla rooms I've played at force you to come down to max if you table change, so that's a legal way of going south. If your table breaks you have the option to keep your stack.

There's a 1 hour rule but it only applies to the table you were previously at, not the whole room.
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Old 11-14-2020, 11:30 AM   #25093
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

LOL I didn't see it!!!

So for live poker I was wondering what some of the best 2/5 long term win rates were.

Mine is mixed between 1/3 - 2/5 and PLO so it's gonna be hard to figure out.

I would think anything north of $50 an hour is pretty solid for 2/5 - and north of $70 is crushing.

Anyone have $100+ an hour? I've seen one player have this for a 3000 hour sample, but he played pretty crazy, and a lot of his moves worked from my experience.
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Old 11-16-2020, 11:55 AM   #25094
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by djevans View Post
LOL I didn't see it!!!

So for live poker I was wondering what some of the best 2/5 long term win rates were.

Mine is mixed between 1/3 - 2/5 and PLO so it's gonna be hard to figure out.

I would think anything north of $50 an hour is pretty solid for 2/5 - and north of $70 is crushing.

Anyone have $100+ an hour? I've seen one player have this for a 3000 hour sample, but he played pretty crazy, and a lot of his moves worked from my experience.
I would think anyone at $100/hour over 500 hours would move up or at least take shots higher, so it's going to be really tough to see that for a sustained sample anyplace where 2/5 is not the biggest game in the room.

Also, I think $100/hour might've been much more achievable a decade ago, probably unrealistic most places these days unless you're aggressively fish-targeting, playing only Friday/Saturdays, and so on.
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Old 11-16-2020, 12:48 PM   #25095
twitcherroo
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I would bum hunt / fish target but the room won’t let me play against myself.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:11 AM   #25096
djevans
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Originally Posted by BlindingLaser View Post
I would think anyone at $100/hour over 500 hours would move up or at least take shots higher, so it's going to be really tough to see that for a sustained sample anyplace where 2/5 is not the biggest game in the room.

Also, I think $100/hour might've been much more achievable a decade ago, probably unrealistic most places these days unless you're aggressively fish-targeting, playing only Friday/Saturdays, and so on.
Ya the games are getting slightly tougher. I made north of $50/hr for 4000 hours and this year I’m at $80 an hour which isn’t terrible. You do need to table change though which I’m not great at doing. I need to work more on that as I do sometimes get stuck at some lousy tables.
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Old 11-21-2020, 04:59 PM   #25097
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Ya the games are getting slightly tougher. I made north of $50/hr for 4000 hours and this year I’m at $80 an hour which isn’t terrible. You do need to table change though which I’m not great at doing. I need to work more on that as I do sometimes get stuck at some lousy tables.
I haven't heard of anybody with an $80/h winrate over a significant sample. $50/h is crushing IMO. Maybe if the game has a deep buyin and plays with frequent straddles it's possible, but then it would be closer to a 5|T.

$100/h I wouldn't believe without seeing it. That's utterly insane if it's a public game. Of course in private games with the right group of people obscene winrates could be possible.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:32 PM   #25098
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Private games with bad players the ultra high winrate is possible, but hard to do that with a lot of volume because you got to play the game in a way that gets you invited back. Also there's only so much money you can take from a small pool of people.
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:06 AM   #25099
djevans
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
I haven't heard of anybody with an $80/h winrate over a significant sample. $50/h is crushing IMO. Maybe if the game has a deep buyin and plays with frequent straddles it's possible, but then it would be closer to a 5|T.

$100/h I wouldn't believe without seeing it. That's utterly insane if it's a public game. Of course in private games with the right group of people obscene winrates could be possible.
$1000 cap 2/5 games. The players aren’t great. It’s a mix of regs and donks. I’ve traveled around and most 2/5 games are pretty soft. A lot of Argentine players were 60+ an hour. They were really good.


I went through 500 hours where my win rate was under $15 an hour. Prolly worst I’ve ever ran. But the last 4000 hours have been pretty good
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:51 PM   #25100
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I made a larger post, and it was moved to the Poker Goals and Challenges section. But I wanted to share my first 1k hrs results here too. This covers about 3 yrs of recreational play with several long breaks. I played on average once a week, until about 3-4 months ago when I started to play more full time since COVID landed me in the unemployment department.

Unfortunately, my card rooms are on a COVID break so it looks like this will wrap it up for this year as well. Here is the break down by game:

1-2NL $500max: +$15,407 over 493hrs for $31.25/hr

1-3NL $300max: +$9,867 over 312hrs for $31.63/hr

2-5NL $1,000max: +$8,300 over 203hrs for $40.89/hr


e

Thankfully, I've had only one protracted down swing; almost $6k, and it all happened at 1-2NL. That was rough, but I took a long break at the end of that and came back better for it.
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