Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em live cash games of all stakes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2020, 07:44 AM   #25001
Petrucci
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,265
Re: BR advice needed for 2/5 plez

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace HIGH V View Post
My win rate is fine for this game clocked about 500 hours in this specific 2/5 game over 2 years just playing on occasional weekends.. (Which I know is a tiny sample size) but terrible play all round, limpers galore, very little 3 betting, and get cussed at for 4 betting ��

Just never played fulltime and always had income from work so, would like to know if 40 buy ins is an adequate roll.

Thx for the replies,
40 buyins is more than enough. Youre plenty rolled for this game.
Petrucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 12:42 PM   #25002
gobbledygeek
Poet Laureate of LLSNL
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33,367
Re: BR advice needed for 2/5 plez

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace HIGH V View Post
My win rate is fine for this game
What's "fine"? And why coy about it as a total unknown when asking for advice?

Gweirdresponse,imoG
gobbledygeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 09:27 PM   #25003
AlanBostick
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlanBostick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: twitch.tv/pokershaman59
Posts: 10,836
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

All other things being equal, you are well-rolled for that game.

But you should keep in mind that as a recreational player, you have been playing at times that have been good for you to play, which by and large are times that other recreational players play, and so your results reflect invisible game selection, in which you are playing in better games.

When you are putting in the hours for income, there are only so many times when the games are great, and so you will be putting many of your hours in inferior games. You may well be able to beat those inferior games, but you will no longer be feeling the advantage of that invisible game selection effect.

Play 4 days a week or so, and your hourly rate will go down, and this won't be because you are playing worse.
AlanBostick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 02:51 AM   #25004
browni3141
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,119
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Is game selection that important? I mainly play evenings but I don’t put much thought into it otherwise. I hardly ever table change.

How much do you think game/table/seat selection adds to your win-rate?
browni3141 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 03:04 AM   #25005
DumbosTrunk
Pooh-Bah
 
DumbosTrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,230
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Is game selection that important? I mainly play evenings but I don’t put much thought into it otherwise. I hardly ever table change.

How much do you think game/table/seat selection adds to your win-rate?
It probably depends on the room/stakes/game, but where I play at least game selection plays a big role. My 2/5 NLHE and 1/2 PLO games can run the gambit in terms of game quality, some nitty and reg-infested, some loose and recreational, so being able to transfer is an integral part of my strategy.

And, there are a select few VIPs (read: whales) in my room with deep pockets who appear from time to time, and I almost always try to change to their tables, for obvious reasons.

Yes this increases my winrate enough for me to annoy the floor requesting table transfers. It's very hard to quantify by how much, however. PokerIncome doesn't have a "whale filter" yet.
DumbosTrunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 07:13 AM   #25006
Petrucci
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,265
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Is game selection that important? I mainly play evenings but I don’t put much thought into it otherwise. I hardly ever table change.

How much do you think game/table/seat selection adds to your win-rate?
I agree with Dumbos, it definetely depends on the pokerroom. But gameselecting well is an underrated skillset in my opinion. My main games where i live is at homegames with only 1 game going at the time each night, so i cant gameselect at my usual grind. But when i am going on pokertrips, to Vegas for example i am well aware of it and scanning my table at least once every hour to see if the game fit the bill.

If you for example sit in a nitty game where its often raised and taken,people arent stacking off for 100 blinds unless its with the nutz, the blinds chops every now and then++, then you can gain alot by being willing to table change.
Petrucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 08:01 AM   #25007
feel wrath
The Situation
 
feel wrath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: lost on the turn
Posts: 23,857
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Oh my God, I’m aware of it the whole time. I move tables or move up or down stakes regularly in a session if....

The table is filled with regs
There’s no action
I see a better table

Etc etc

The way I’ve always viewed it is that I know I’m not the best at ‘playing poker’ so to survive at my stakes against pros I have to be a good ‘poker player’ by which I mean selecting games and seats optimally, concentration on the action, never playing drunk or tired, not playing when on life tilt and a load of other things. I see these as the soft skills of being good at poker, as opposed to the actual playing the cards part
feel wrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 08:46 AM   #25008
browni3141
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,119
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I definitely agree that game selection has a lot of value, I'm just not great at it.

I have a hard time distinguishing between the relative skill level of different bad players, which partly stems from being terrible at paying attention to hands I'm not in. I also can't easily remember how people play across sessions except for extreme outliers, so I can't tell how good a table might be without watching it for awhile, even if it's all regs. I don't like spending time scouting because I'm missing action at my own table (as if I'm paying attention anyway). Also, turnover is typically fairly high so by the time I've identified a good table, gotten my name on the transfer list and waited for a seat to open the conditions which make the table I'm at "bad" may have already changed. I'm better off transferring to any open table as soon as I notice my table is sub-average, but even then I've probably already spent an hour at that table and have some basic reads on most of the players, and I cant bring my stack if I happened to double up already.

Also, is a nitty table even really that bad? Are you really that much worse off against an ABC nit who you can range fairly accurately early in the hand than you are against a splashy unpredictable fish? Of course, a table of legit decent Tags who balance their ranges sucks but those don't exist at low stakes. I enjoy tables I can auto-pilot and collect easy money from partially because I am not good at paying attention. I can play longer without fatigue if I'm in a game that doesn't require a high level of focus.
browni3141 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 08:56 AM   #25009
johnny_on_the_spot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnny_on_the_spot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: S-Mart
Posts: 10,920
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Is game selection that important? I mainly play evenings but I don’t put much thought into it otherwise. I hardly ever table change.

How much do you think game/table/seat selection adds to your win-rate?


Where I play the PLO game has destroyed the 2/5 player pool so 2/5 is very hit and miss. A lot of times it’s better/more profitable to sit at a normal 1/3 than a very nitty 2/5
johnny_on_the_spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 12:48 PM   #25010
Ranma4703
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: she / her
Posts: 3,008
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
Where I play the PLO game has destroyed the 2/5 player pool so 2/5 is very hit and miss. A lot of times it’s better/more profitable to sit at a normal 1/3 than a very nitty 2/5
come play the PLO game with us it's so much better than the nitty 2/5!
Ranma4703 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 12:59 PM   #25011
johnny_on_the_spot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnny_on_the_spot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: S-Mart
Posts: 10,920
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I’ve already determined I’m a terrible PLO player. I don’t need more of a sample size.

I guess the real question now is if you know who I am...
johnny_on_the_spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 01:06 PM   #25012
DumbosTrunk
Pooh-Bah
 
DumbosTrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,230
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
I’ve already determined I’m a terrible PLO player. I don’t need more of a sample size.

I guess the real question now is if you know who I am...
Lol we probably play in the same room. 2/5 has become very nitty and PLO is where it's at. 1/3 is probably better than 2/5 at this point, even after rake effects.
DumbosTrunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 01:13 PM   #25013
johnny_on_the_spot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnny_on_the_spot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: S-Mart
Posts: 10,920
*** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
Lol we probably play in the same room. 2/5 has become very nitty and PLO is where it's at. 1/3 is probably better than 2/5 at this point, even after rake effects.


Based on the games you’re playing in your HHs that you’ve posted, I doubt we’re in the same room.
johnny_on_the_spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 01:15 PM   #25014
sixsevenoff
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,375
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Why would anyone ever post winrate and/or bankroll? Aren't you afraid of the IRS?
sixsevenoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 01:16 PM   #25015
johnny_on_the_spot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnny_on_the_spot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: S-Mart
Posts: 10,920
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff View Post
Why would anyone ever post winrate and/or bankroll? Aren't you afraid of the IRS?


You’re severely overestimating the IRS’s resources.
johnny_on_the_spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 01:21 PM   #25016
sixsevenoff
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,375
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
You’re severely overestimating the IRS’s resources.
All I know is my uncle didn't claim eBay and got slapped with a (I believe) $10k fine
sixsevenoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 01:27 PM   #25017
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,913
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ebay issues a tax form and the IRS gets that, if the computer sees that you didn't include that then you may get audited.
parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 01:29 PM   #25018
DumbosTrunk
Pooh-Bah
 
DumbosTrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,230
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Because we in fact pay taxes on our professional gambling winnings, that's why.

If you only play on occasion recreationally as a hobby, and/or you just plain lose (and could write it off but don't for other reasons), that's a whole different story.

Last edited by Garick; 03-07-2020 at 02:35 PM. Reason: judgement removed
DumbosTrunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 02:08 PM   #25019
browni3141
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,119
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
Because we in fact pay taxes on our professional gambling winnings, that's why.
I’d be shocked if anyone got audited by something they post here, and I don’t think it would count as evidence of income in case of an audit. It’s not exactly uncommon for people to lie on the internet.

The IRS has limited resources and there’s just no way they’re combing through forum posts looking for tax cheats especially when you couldn’t link most peoples‘ accounts to a real person very easily.

Last edited by Garick; 03-07-2020 at 02:37 PM. Reason: politics part removed
browni3141 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 02:23 PM   #25020
DumbosTrunk
Pooh-Bah
 
DumbosTrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,230
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

A lot of it is peace of mind too. Sure I can't control how my taxes are spent - I assume most go to public institutions like schools, police departments, the military, etc. I may not like how all of the money is spent. I may not like how much I pay compared to the richest among us. But I live and work here and I want to sleep well at night knowing I did my part to support those institutions I do support.

Last edited by Garick; 03-07-2020 at 02:37 PM. Reason: politics part out
DumbosTrunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 02:35 PM   #25021
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,603
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

How people deal with taxes is on them, but we are not going to play the "following the law is a chump move" card ITF or ITT. It is a legal question, not a political-party one. Couple of posts deleted.
Garick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:46 PM   #25022
Jarebear
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 11
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

i Know the standard is to buy bin for max. My game is 1/3 100-300. I feel I play better if I buy in for 100 and GII often. I know variance will play a big part in this but if I want to become more serious about playing what is minimum roll. 3000? 5000? 10000?
Jarebear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:48 PM   #25023
DumbosTrunk
Pooh-Bah
 
DumbosTrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,230
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarebear View Post
i Know the standard is to buy bin for max. My game is 1/3 100-300. I feel I play better if I buy in for 100 and GII often. I know variance will play a big part in this but if I want to become more serious about playing what is minimum roll. 3000? 5000? 10000?
$6,789. About.
DumbosTrunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:51 PM   #25024
johnny_on_the_spot
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
johnny_on_the_spot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: S-Mart
Posts: 10,920
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

1/3, 300 cap, if you’re a winning player, 3k should probably be ok. Probably have a small % chance ROR
johnny_on_the_spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 08:16 PM   #25025
Tanqueray
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,039
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

If you're a winning player, and I don't mean a silly mental tally, you wouldn't ask how much BR is needed.

And if you are asking how much is needed, 3000bb BR would certainly have a very high ROR.

In other words, skill plays a huge role. 90% of LLSNL players will go bust 100% of the times with $3,000, just matter of when.

Last edited by Tanqueray; 03-08-2020 at 08:33 PM.
Tanqueray is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive