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Old 02-10-2020, 07:23 PM   #24976
LordRiverRat
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
Not sure when $1/3 started, but I can tell you the first time I played it was September 13th 2009 ... at *Treasure Island* of all places.

Raising the blinds a little bit to $1/3 gets more rake in the small pots, which is bad, but it also makes it easier get beyond the max rake point so the % taken from the pot drops, which is good. Not really sure which is more important to overall winrate though.
That's not bad. It's still raked the same %. And also I'll feel way less like a sucker when I tip the dealer $1 for taking a $30 or $40 pot than when I take a $20 pot where $2 got raked and $1 got promo dropped. But you are right about how it makes it easier for the rake to get capped.
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:24 PM   #24977
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I remember playing at TI that was a fun game. It was also one of the only places you could straddle any amount UTG.

Lucky Lady and Viejas both had 1/3 circa 2006 where I played quite often.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:19 PM   #24978
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

$4+$3 is not a bad rake. If you can’t beat live poker the problem isn’t with the $7 rake.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:33 PM   #24979
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You're right.

$7.25/hr is not a bad hourly wage. If you cannot make a living, the problem isn't with the $7.25 minimum wage.

I think you are missing the point.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:41 PM   #24980
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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You're right.

$7.25/hr is not a bad hourly wage. If you cannot make a living, the problem isn't with the $7.25 minimum wage.

I think you are missing the point.
Yes I am and I don’t understand your analogy either.

You’re talking about rake going up $1 in ten years, and jackpot drop going up $1. The EV of the jackpot drop is supposed to be fully returned to players so you’re claiming a $1/10 year increase in rake represents the game trending towards unbeatable.

People that only kinda know what they’re doing are beating the games for 8-10BB/hour or more over statistically significant samples. Live poker is not challenging to beat. You are playing against people who don’t even understand poker is a strategy game. Heck, it’s at least a weekly occurrence for me to run into players that don’t even understand hand rankings.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:10 PM   #24981
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

It would make sense for stakes to go up with rake if rake was being driven by inflation.

The fish likely won't see it that tho. They'll just see that it's getting more expensive to buy-in.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:43 PM   #24982
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

lol, you guys all think the fish notice the rake?!?!

Joey bag-o-doughnuts doesn't give a **** about the rake because he always wins. at least that's what he tells his boyz

and if they happen to be around when he loses.... he was just fuqin around that time.

[narrator] Joey was not fuqin around that time... or any of the other 70% of the time he lost.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:45 PM   #24983
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I like the Mike Birbiglia reference.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:54 PM   #24984
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I like the Mike Birbiglia reference.
i had to look this guy up. never heard of him. pretty sure that name predates his standup though, considering he's only 41
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:56 PM   #24985
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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i had to look this guy up. never heard of him. pretty sure that name predates his standup though, considering he's only 41
Oh. I first heard it on his stand up years ago. He called his brother that.

I didn't know it was like a common term or anything.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:22 PM   #24986
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

replied in chat thread, as this is a heck of a derail.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:53 AM   #24987
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

there's an uncapped 5/5 game I play in sometimes where the rake is basically whatever the dealers feel like taking out of the pot, I'll watch them take out $5 on the flop, $20 on the turn, $50 on the river with no real rhyme or reason to it, but I'm averaging a $100/hr winrate in that game so I don't really care.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:24 AM   #24988
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You should care. If you let the hosts steal like that, the game will die eventually, as it gets a bad rep. I'd let the floor know that you know, by quietly mentioning it as though it were a problem with a specific dealer. If that doesn't get it to stop (it probably won't) I'd mention it again using another dealer and "this seems to be a pattern, maybe you need to do some remedial training on the rake schedule."

If that still doesn't work, I personally would give up on the game then, but if it is a gold-mine you can't quit, I'd enlist some others to make comments too. If that still doesn't work, I'd loudly complain about them stealing from the players, and that you're going to go play at X. Better to be an early adopter and try to get the player pool to move before the recs get angry and just quit poker.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:40 AM   #24989
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProRailbird View Post
there's an uncapped 5/5 game I play in sometimes where the rake is basically whatever the dealers feel like taking out of the pot, I'll watch them take out $5 on the flop, $20 on the turn, $50 on the river with no real rhyme or reason to it, but I'm averaging a $100/hr winrate in that game so I don't really care.
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
lol, you guys all think the fish notice the rake?!?!

Joey bag-o-doughnuts doesn't give a **** about the rake because he always wins. at least that's what he tells his boyz

and if they happen to be around when he loses.... he was just fuqin around that time.

[narrator] Joey was not fuqin around that time... or any of the other 70% of the time he lost.
even if your 100/hr is sustainable, how long do you think before the rake + your win rate kills the game? [insert quote about sheering vs skinning a sheep]
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:45 AM   #24990
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

yeah ive played in several games like this and they all inevitably die but trying to get dealers to not quadruple rake the pot is never going to happen in games like that. whining about the rake would just give me a bad image in other games. i was just using it as an example to make a point that even super sick rake can still be beatable if the player pool is bad enough.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:48 AM   #24991
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
...
even if your 100/hr is sustainable, how long do you think before the rake + your win rate kills the game? [insert quote about sheering vs skinning a sheep]
in this specific game probably like six more months. but that's just how these games operate. usually the plan of the hosts is only to run it for a year or two anyways. once it's gone there will just be other games.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:34 PM   #24992
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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i was just using it as an example to make a point that even super sick rake can still be beatable if the player pool is bad enough.
If you're winning $100/hr long term in a game that is raked hugely, then I'm assuming you must be playing in a big stake / big BI game?

This forum/thread is (mostly) for the smallest live games you'll find (i.e. it doesn't sound like you're comparing apples to apples). Rake will be a huge factor in what is possible in these types of games (including whether the game is beatable at all, regardless of the lol quality of your opponents).

GimoG
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:41 PM   #24993
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There is a belief that positives trends are linear and that whales will never disappear.

Every $1 rake represents $30 to $35 taken from the table in an hour. Using the low end, that is $720 gone in 24 hours, $5,040 in a week, $21,600 in a month.

That's just one table.

Suppose that the game is only spread 50% of all hours at the table, it is still $10,800 taken from one table.

If the room has 10 tables, that is $108,000 taken from the player pool in that room.

For a room to have 10 tables and fill at 50% capacity on average, it clocks around total of 32,000 player hours. If each player plays average of 40 hours, player pool has about 800 players.

If average loss of the 800 players is $500 a month, $400,000 is roughly the size of the "prize pool." $108,000 represents about 1/4 of that money.
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:05 PM   #24994
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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
People that only kinda know what they’re doing are beating the games for 8-10BB/hour or more over statistically significant samples. Live poker is not challenging to beat. You are playing against people who don’t even understand poker is a strategy game. Heck, it’s at least a weekly occurrence for me to run into players that don’t even understand hand rankings.
I am in agreement with everything you said here, but you still missed my point.

None of this rake talk has anything to do with whether players are harder to beat.

Rent raised by 33%? No big deal, as long as I am a poker crusher.

Gas went up by 50%? I got it. I am a poker crusher.
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:58 PM   #24995
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

How is noone complaining when they raking $75/pot. What the actual ****
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:19 PM   #24996
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BR advice needed for 2/5 plez

I have 20k saved purely for poker
5k for spending and bills

And recently my work has been reduced to 2 days a week earning $450/week which covers rent, bills, food, fuel etc with **** all left. (I just turned 21 btw so I'm cheap asf).

I want to play live poker 3-4 days a week to supplement.
For working way less.

My only game option is local 2/5 & 5/5 with 10% rake capped at $15 (****ed I know) 1-2 tables of each stake running.

Would I be better off sitting 2/5 with 100bb for 40 buy ins or is this not enough and would I be better off shortstacking? Allowing myself more buy ins.(But with the insanely high rake shorting seems futile) also 2/5 table most people buy in for $250 - $400 very rare for someone to start with Max.

Long time lurker 1st time poster, appreciate the help.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:25 PM   #24997
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Re: BR advice needed for 2/5 plez

You’re rolled just fine for this game if your job pays all expenses. Buyin full.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:29 PM   #24998
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Re: BR advice needed for 2/5 plez

You missed out some important information, which is your track record at these type of games. If you don’t have a solid winning record, you may be losing money rather than making it.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:48 PM   #24999
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Re: BR advice needed for 2/5 plez

My win rate is fine for this game clocked about 500 hours in this specific 2/5 game over 2 years just playing on occasional weekends.. (Which I know is a tiny sample size) but terrible play all round, limpers galore, very little 3 betting, and get cussed at for 4 betting ��

Just never played fulltime and always had income from work so, would like to know if 40 buy ins is an adequate roll.

Thx for the replies,
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Old 03-05-2020, 09:01 PM   #25000
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Re: BR advice needed for 2/5 plez

You can buy in full, but that rake is going to crush your win rate. Depending on game play, they could be raking a full buy in off the table per hour.
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