OMG it's literally just moving seat. It's not as though you're spitting in their face. If a whale is butthurt enough to ragequit a game because a reg moved to their left, I couldn't care less tbh

you care enough to change seats to "increase your winning potential" but couldn't care less if a whale quits a game?

they aren't clueless at all. imo there are some okay ways to seat/table change and some awful ways to seat/table change, but keeping it to a minimum is best for the game as a whole. some regs get it and some regs don't.

I don't think many people understand where money comes from in live poker.

It doesn't come from people making exploitable mistakes in a solvable game. I mean sure it ends there.

But it begins from people wanting to spend recreational time in a casino and win/lose that is their idea of fun.

Sure, brush up on hand ranges. Study sizing strategies. Mock up some multiway spots. Get good at bet/folding.

Other than that, get very good at social game and tilt control. These are the two biggest areas that separate average winning regs from super donkey crushers.

I've told this story a million times but its one of my favorites.

I once 4bet jammed my favorite whale for 100bbs at 5/10. He asked if I had aces or kings. I laughed and said neither. He started pushing out the call. I put my hand out and stopped him and said "woah woah woah ok I dont want to lie, I have aces." He said really? I tabled them. He said, "that's why I like you kid, you play for fun" and slid out the call. He had KJo.

This guy gave me one thousand dollars. Do you understand? No exploitative sizing mistake. No overbluffing a capped range. No betting a 100% range check texture. None of that bs that has absolutely toxified these forums.

This dude literally slid me $1000.

That is live poker. If you are great at social game you will make far more than most people that can beat $500NL zone on stars. Not because you are better than them at poker. But because you are better at social game and get into better games with bigger whales that play longer.

In the "best player" thread on nvg I posted Jean-Robert Bellande. A few people lol'd at my wit. Only I was 100% serious.

he slid you $850 imo

not Dan Bilzerian?

It's about sustainability. If you want whales at your games, actively work to improve their experience. Customer service is a big part of live poker. I know one grinder who has whales inviting him to private games despite the fact he's from Brazil and barely speaks English. He never changes seats, congratulates others when they get lucky on him, and most controversially sometimes gives action when he shouldn't. Barring that last part, he increased his hourly by providing donators with a fun experience.

You should care if a whale rage quits on you. If they're worthy of being likened to a giant marine mammal, getting their $ shouldn't be problem OOP. You'd likely make more from them over time if you focus on the war, not the battle. I'm not advocating tabling aces because you'll get a guy to stack off anyways once every 2,500 hours, but do consider the enjoyment of those paying your bills.

@Ava fantastic post

Edit: @quantum also great post

More like $867, but yeah. I concur.

Heh, he actually slid me nothing. K flop, K turn, gg me.

To be clear, this is not some strat where you get on your knees and bend over for every rec player there is. My move was -EV at best and a temp ban from alot of casinos at worst.

Our speech play happened so quick, I could tell he thought I was being 100% honest when I said "neither"...and I just didn't want it to go down that way.

He was one of my favorite players to play with. Aggressive, friendly, and zero concern for money.

I will always change seat to the left of whoever I think the best player is and say it out loud. Couldn't care less about position with whales (mostly because I haven't really seen any whales that fit the descriptions given above at my room, certainly not with "zero concern for money")

Flattery is your second best weapon (the first is having aces) at the poker table, whether it's congratulating their luck or their skill. I'll go as far as getting people water or buying them a comp meal if they cant find their card.

Just like other things in life, if you're not enjoying yourself and keeping a happy demeanor, people will pick up on it and try to avoid you, perhaps even subconsciously.

I'll leave it to the forum vets to determine how much it adds to the actual bb/hr winrate.

Damn. I had to hop over and binge that thread for a while...DGAF has so much solid advice.

I've never played full-time, and never would (I have a fantastic career that I love and pays very well), but I did play part-time pretty seriously almost 5 years ago, mostly to fund mad-money or vacations. While I never saw the abyss quite as clearly as DGAF describes, I've definitely played enough to glimpse it from the edge, and it is truly an ugly beast. I realized it's not anything I could handle on a long-term basis where the money was actually needed for bills or whatever else.

But his sharing of Dan Colman's insights into the society as a whole I found to be exactly what drove me to being averse to playing professionally. While I still love the game, I noticed significant changes in my thought process. I would view people in life the same way I viewed them at the poker table...it was all about maximizing an edge or exploiting a mistake. And it eventually wore on me knowing I was sitting with slush money while the guy across the felt had his rent on the table. That emotional grind led me to completely leave the game for over 2 years, until I was able to reconcile my love for the game with an approach that didn't have negative affects on my mental health.

In out home game we save a specific seat for a whale, even when there's a waiting list (someone gets a play-over though). We bought him a space heater because he's always cold. We get the food and booze that he likes. I'm sure if it was requested the host would get a hooker to come to the game for him.

It doesn't really matter where at the table you're sitting when he's potting it blind every few hands and sometimes shoveling $1k into the game in an orbit.

Lol space heater

What is a graph that is on a 60+ degree angle?

I lol'ed

Fantastic poasts by several members, Avas post is absolutely spot on and something to keep in mind for everybody.

Who keeps your games going? Who contributes greatly to your winrate?

Some people ITT seem to have a long way to go when it comes to customer service approach (how to treat fish and whales properly), underestimating them by saying to yourself they have no clue.

Matter of fact is that many of the biggest whales/punters are really smart people, both in terms of their career choice and not to forget many are very good socially. They are good with women, they have lot of friends and they often come to pokergames to have fun and gamble. They dont care if they lose money, that is not the point. They have alot of money, they know they are gonna lose: but they want to lose the money the way they want. To the players they like,the ones that treat them with respect and equal persons.

I have many similar whale stories like the one Ava posted, pure gifts because i have used time to get a good relationship with them over time. 2 weeks before i left for my recent Vegas trip i was in my usual underground game. Big whale who fuels all the games through the year was there as usual. We get into a big pot in the middle of the night, 1 hour before game breaks. I flopped middle set on him with 99 on 39J flop with a flushdraw, and check-shoved overbet for like $500 into a pot of $100. "Jeeze, you managed to flop that good on me once more?" he says to me and crack a smirky smile. "Youre soon going to your Vegas trip right Petrucci?" (He knows how much i love that city and what it means to me). "Alright, i have a crappy hand but i call and gamble anyway because its you and i like you- have a premium steak dinner on me, and have a blast in Vegas". He calls with K10, naked gutterball.

I can guarantee you, that its only me and one other reg in those games that gets those kind of gifts from time to time through the year. So now, anybody want to argue that its not +EV to be friendly with whales, treating them with respect,try to keep them happy as possible instead of pissing them off with musical chairs all night and solely be obsessed with every inch of small EV you can extract from them?

I'm not saying you shouldn't be friendly with whales and treat them with respect. Obv you should. I just don't think moving seat precludes you from doing that.

but it's transparently predatory behaviour and the smart, rich whaley guy playing 2/5 or 5/10 knows exactly what you're doing and why and it makes him feel uncomfortable.

I told this story to somebody else today - one of the very biggest and most fun whales I play with in Sydney...a guy capable of calling down 4 streets blind for more than 1k in a 2/5 game (and winning the pot - boom) told me when I saw him in Dec that he doesn't play my game any more because all the regs either patronise him or compete aggressively for his money. seat changing, table changing, telling their friends he's there etc. he owns a business with 80 staff so he's making millions a year, he doesn't need the money and he knows he's a dog in the games, but he wants friendly competition and the predatory behaviour of the regs has made it not fun any more. it made me furious, ****ing livid.

as an aside, are you still in Melb?

That's fair. I guess if you have a whole room full of regs berating him and whatnot then yeah I think that's bad. But I'm like probably the only reg in my room who actually seat changes for reasons other than superstition? And I do it pretty covertly. I've never seen a fish or whale react negatively or give off an impression of not being impressed by my doing that.

I'm in Brisbane still ATM, heading to Melbourne in a week for Aussie millions and to check out some places to live.

I'm down there 22-25th if you're there that week?

Yeah man, there from 19th. Shoot us a PM if you're keen to catch up for a beer.

I dont know where you guys play but I wish my games where anywhere near that good. There is tons of money here in S. Florida but I have never seen any whales make ridiculous calls like a few people have mentioned. Ive also never seen any of them look or act uncomfortable because someone changes seats.

What I see mostly is people changing seats because they always sit in a certain seat, because they cant see the cards unless they are in seats 5 or 6, because a certain seat gets bumped by people walking by because its too close to the wall, because their seat doesnt get any cards, because they cant see the TV ect.

I see people moving INTO a terrible seat on the wrong side of a maniac or a pro, all the time for any of those reasons and more.

+1. It is not and never will be a crime to swap seats.

Lol, youre a pure master when it comes to putting up strawmen. Nobody has never argued anywhere close to saying its a crime, breaking the rules or that its not allowed. Youre missing the important points by a landslide.

Its quite mindboggling to see it demonstrated over and over again how much lack of knowledge and experience it is amongst people who play full time for a living- when it comes to the topic of social intelligence, and how to treat whales/losing players properly.

I always get a seat change button and end up moving to seats 1 or 9. Mainly because I have more room to move around which makes it easier on my bad back. I can stand up as much as I want without disturbing anyone. I hate the middle seats and the when in an end seat I end up leaning forward to much which hurts my back. I also am able to text people or put notes on my phone without people looking over my shoulder and seeing what Im doing.

Other people have their own strange reasons for whatever seats they like. In my estimation 90%+ of all seat changing is due to nothing related to getting position on people.

Once in seat 1 or 9, I have probably only changed seats 3 times in 2 years due to positioning of other players. My comfort when Im sitting for 5 hours is a lot more important to me and how well I play than where other people are sitting. There are adjustments you can make to play differently if you are on a pro's right or left or a whale's right or left.

I bet if you took a poll in a poker room most people would say something similar. They want to be in a certain seat for any reason other than positioning on certain players. You guys over think this stuff.