The actual # is going to be different for every player and overall strategy. If we use a winning prototypical 2+2 tag as a baseline. I'd estimate it's closer to +$3/hr.

I mean even if it's as low as .8/hr. We spend hours nitpicking a lot of gray spots where deciphering between call/fold/raise may not give us +.8/hr long term.

Plus it's really not that big of a deal. Ppl don't really notice and if anyone asks just say you are superstitious about taking $ out your stack

Not if we're playing very aggressive versus villains who fold too much. Then we may mostly get it in bad, but compensate for that by all the pots we steal when we jam and they fold.

But the whole premise is ridiculous. Stealthily top off if you have to, but don't blatantly use chips from off the table to pay time and tips.

Poker is about more than the lines you take in your hands.

i havent analyzed it, but i dont think it's close to moot solely because getting AI gets canceled out. there are a lot of sessions where we're not playing from above max buy in too, which factor into it becoming close to zero.

granted, i'm not really taking a hardline stance here, if someone analyzed it and had some numbers, i'd sway pretty easily.

another problem with this whole scenario is there are plenty of people who will do things above tipping from their stack, like pay for food or massages. so while our intent is to get as deep as possible, many others are willing to blow money from their stacks on non-poker related items

For 1/2-5/5 having an overall strategy where you end being down over a fair sample, when allin/called is insanely high varianced and totally unnecessary for these stakes. The general player pool tends to call off way too wide which helps make these stakes so soft. If you really break it down it's got to be a leak to play this way.

As you move up yes, I agree $ won w/o showdown becomes increasingly important.

How are you sure to the extent of saying it's ridiculous?

Exactly.

Ended my 1/2 prop bet. I grinded some marathon sessions to get enough hours to prove a point. I win the prop bet easily.

168 hrs
$7670
$45.65/hr
82% winning sessions
18% losing sessions

StnDev $124.60 / hr

I ran a couple hundo under All-in EV equity.

Favorite hands

1) Button straddle $5. Both blinds call.
I make it $20 KK. LP and button call
Pot $70. Flop Q62. I check. MP checks. Button bets $35. I check raise to $100. Button calls heads up.
Pot $ 270 Turn 9. I shove all in. He calls off $175 with JJ. River Q and mhig.

2) 5 limps. SB raises to $8. I 3 bet to $25 with As5s in BB.

Pot $60. Flop 875. He checks. I bet $35. He calls.
Pot $130 Turn A. He leads $25. I raise to $100. He calls.
Pot $330. River 6. He checks. I shove all in. He calls off his last $150 and mucks.

Nice congrats. How long was it for? A month?

What's the biggest difference in the lower stakes?

The bet was for at least 100 hours but I kept going all month to make it harder to say it was a fluke.

I would say the biggest difference is that almost everyone has major leaks including sizing tells and paying off big bets. At 2/5 I see a lot less of that. Also, 1/2 players hardly ever put you to a big test like some 2/5 players do.

The preflop raise sizing tells at 1/2 are incredibly easy to spot if you are paying attention.

Must have felt nice crushing. GL when you move back to your regular stakes

Right, even if you expect to be ahead most of the time, you're only profiting some small percentage of that figure in the long run. Even discounting all ins there are situations where it'd be better to have 20bb less in your stack.

Anyway, I don't think it's worth looking like a tool to squeak out a couple more theoretical dollars. That sort of image has to have some negative effect.

You could just go north fifty bucks when you sit down instead.

Curious what bet was? For how much?


Asking because working on doing a prop with friend. I have next 60 days off. Need motivation to play.

Nice run by way.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

This. Worrying about your <2bb to top your >200bb stack is negligible. IMO not worth paying from your pocket and drawing attention to yourself.

If you're that much of a nit about it go north a few bbs. Nobody cares

how is this even a conversation? buy in full. top up so you cover the cap or everyone at the table as soon as you go under. then it doesnt matter whether your tip/rake money comes from your pocket or stack. EV is the same.

I got 3:1 odds on $500. I had to make $30/hr+ for at least 100 hrs

So you played half your usual stakes for a month to win at most 3 buyins of the stake you usually play at?

I'm sure it's been covered somewhere in here but what's a good app or two for android and tracking cash games?

^^this

Also what kind of idiot gave you 3-1 odds on that?

All this Mike Starr hating be gone

If they're good results, let's be positive - they're good results and he won the bet

Leave the dude alone

If i played the minimum 100 hours and hit $30/hr I would win $3000 plus $1500 for a total of $4500. That's a total of $45/hr. That's a damned good win rate for 2/5 so I didnt feel like I would be missing out on potential profit by playing lower stakes for a month.

To prevent me from stopping at 100 hours and locking in a win (if I was winning at that point), I was not allowed to play higher stakes at all. I was confidant that I could stay ahead of the $30/hr mark so I kept grinding way past 100 hrs.

How exactly did I win "at most 3 buyins of the stake" I usually play at? That was just the bet. I won the $7670 on top of that. You think Im disappointed with a $9170 month?

How many people do you think can break $30/hr at 1/2? Its not exactly easy to do. I actually think I should've gotten better odds. Several of my 2/5 friends told me I was crazy.

You're being results orientated Mike. Congratulations on the win and good month but just on simple math you took a bad bet. The bet was not only bad at face value, but gave you terrible marginal utility because you're a dude who puts in a ton of hours but ~70 of your hours last month were basically useless.

If you played say 150 hours at 1/2, made 35/hr you would have made less than playing 150 hours at 2/5 with a 10bb/hr win rate.

How so?

Lets assume my long term win rate at 1/2 is $30/hr and at 2/5 its $45/hr. I guess you could say I gave away $15/hr times 70 hrs in equity. Certainly not a useless 70 hrs. I still made a real $3150 in those 70 hours and an assumed $2100 based on the assumed $30/hr win rate.

Also, when the bet was made I didnt know how it would turn out. I really didnt think I would be so far above the $30/hr mark when I agreed to the "no higher stakes" clause. It wouldnt have made much sense to just not play any more the rest of the month (those 70 hrs) just so I didnt get up any assumed equity by playing lower stakes than normal.

Added bonus....I worked on some things that I believe will make my 2/5 and 5/10 game better in the future. Specifically more LAG play and more deep stack play.

Seems super results oriented imo.

It's all good that you won, but talking winrates over 100 hours is a bit silly. What if you ran at 22/hr over 130 hours and lost 500 from the bet for a total net of 2360. Is 18/hr still a damned good winrate for 2/5?

Congrats on winning anyway, but I agree it was a bad bet