Why would it not be possible?

Obv it's "possible" but I just have been hearing so many people sooking ITT about how tuff it is to grind 1800 hours a year. And all these "pros" whining about how bad they are at getting volume in.

To me imo, I don't see how you could call yourself a "pro" unless you were playing 2k+ hours at 2/5 or higher. Or like a deep 1/3

Good thing you're not the committee assigning pro cards.

Not sure where you are going with the question and how it is relevant.

Volume is an issue because most rather play weekend and night to maintain certain expectation in WR. It's less sexy to say your WR is 5bb even though your YTD is higher than to say your WR is 11bb.

2k hours at 6bb/HR is only 60k assuming you run at EV. Don't see how anyone could work less than 40 hours a week and expect to make similar money unless their WR was higher but, not to get back into the gr8 WR deb8, I think 6bb/HR is reasonably modest to shoot for as a pro even if your true WR may be higher, you're going to want to be conservative in projections.

Doing a prob bet with a friend of mine. Most volume until the new year, and I am taking off two days. I hope to hit 70 hrs in about 5 and a half days

70 hours in 144 hours not impressed, make it 100 and I think you got a bet.

You'd be a smelly ass hog at 100 and I think it would be great.

Paging Duke!

5/10 hardly ever runs at Hard Rock in Hollywood either. How about people stick to posting about what they know for sure?

As Avaritia has posted earlier, there's almost never a 5/10 game at Hard Rock. There's almost always one single game at the Isle (2 of them maybe 15% of the time). DCFT reports almost never a 5/10 at HR Tampa.

Ive traveled other parts of Florida and have found no 5/10 games anywhere else. Maybe Jacksonville has one, not sure. That's basically 1-2 games in just about the entire state of Florida which people seem to think is poker mecca.

TBF, it's been running more during the holidays, but from what I've seen its only one table. The "Big Game" here is PLO.

I would guess and this is a total guess, that the number of 5/T players making 200k "consistently" over multiple (where multiple means > 2) years in the US could be counted on 1 hand

Obviously if you mix in some private games and playing higher there are more but it would be extremely rare just from 5/10 imo


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I don't know a ton of 200k+ pros but I can say the vast majority of them are not the sickest players in the room. They know how to treat action players well, get private games and are well liked. The complete sickos aren't invited to these games. Instead they battle the other good pros.


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I don't think your point is wrong. However I think it is "easier" to make 200k (or pick a number) than most think. And you don't have to be in finance or law or medicine to do so. Frankly outside of the true high finance people those aren't the ones that make "real" money anyway.

However, a lot of people think about biz related issues incorrectly, lack an understanding of what it takes to make more, don't have the proper education or are comfortable where they are. Some of those can be overcome but it has to come from the person.

Beyond the scope of this discussion but something I think about often in my line of work so thought this was s spot to drop in.


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Extremely true. If you're not beating casino games for 200k+ it's private games and in most cases you need to be a very social person to get invited.

Speaking of prop bets....I know some guys who whine that playing 1/2 is too hard to beat due to the rake being the same as it is as 2/5 ($5 +$2). Tips are a higher percentage of your pots ect. Too many short stacks and not enough money on the table at 1/2....blah blah blah. They tell me they will be able to crush once they have a roll for 2/5.

I said I could make $30/hr playing 1/2 because so many of the players are clueless and the prop bet was born. I was exaggerating to make a point, but I got called on it so I negotiated 3:1 odds on $500. Of course they have to trust me. At least 100 hrs of 1/2 in December.

Results so far:
118 hours
$5811
$49.20 / hr
19 winning sessions (83%)
4 losing sessions (17%)

StnDev...$124.94/hr

Thoughts:

1) Im finding it a very good exercise in refocusing. I have no reads on anyone and it forces me to concentrate on every hand and find ways to exploit each player in different ways. Ive been on semi auto pilot for a while and I think this will help when I return to my regular games in Jan.

2) I would need more fingers and toes to count the number of people who have asked me why Im playing 1/2 or have looked at me from across the room with a "WTF" look on their face. At least 10 people have approached a friend of mine and asked whats up with me. They probably think Im busto.

3) Actual conversation with dealer:
Dealer..."Im a little worried about you"
Me: "Really Why?"
Dealer: "You're a 2/5 player and you were playing a lot of 5/10 last month and now your HERE?"
Me :"Two words....prop bet".

Memo to dealers....please dont say something like this to a player while at the table!

4) Worst thing about playing 1/2 in my room? The strategy talk is beyond tilting.


Highlight:

UTG straddles to $5. 2 people call. I make it $20 in MP with JJ. SB calls. UTG goes all in for $44. One caller of the $44. I 4 bet to $100. SB shoves all in for $160. Folds back to me and I call.

Board runs out K739T. I think Im beat until the SB proudly tables his Q6. UTG mucks and I drag the pot.

Lowlight:

EP raises $6..next guy calls. I 3 bet to $30 in the SB with AA. EP calls. Next guy shoves all in for $100. I reshove. EP folds. I lose AA vs KK...standard.

I work in an office of ~150 people for a company over 5k people. There are probably 10 +/- 3 who make 200k+ in my office. Not impossible, but also not everyone is on that career path

There are probably 30-50 making 100k+, and many are on the path of eventually making that within 5-10 years, whether in my company or in another.

Edit: I'll also say I know/have known people who are straight up terrible at their jobs that are making mid 100k. It's very difficult for superiors to determine level of ability without actually looking at it carefully or getting lots of feedback from others. Most will look at time cards to see how much work is getting charged and base opinions off of that, which is a terrible way to assess things, but is how it tends to happen

@mike, strat talk at the table in general is tilting. Especially the smaller stakes.

They often want you to engage in conversation about their "moves" and you kind of need some go to replies.

Strat talk doesn't normally bother me. It can be a good way to find out who knows what they are talking about and you can use that info against them. Sometimes its 2 guys who mutually respect each other and they are talking low so that not everyone can hear.

What I'm talking about is stuff like....

"AA is the hardest hand to play in poker. If you raise you just take down the blinds and if you dont, you get cracked". This came right after I cracked his AA after the guy limped it. The next time he got it he opened to 10BBs and took the blinds. He shows and says "See?"

Guy has JT on a Q98 board and over bet pounds the flop. He takes it down and says "I wasnt messing around there. I was afraid of someone hitting a higher straight on me".

A guy tells me "Youre the master of the late position raise".

If I hear "I had to find out where I was at" one more time Im gonna throat punch someone.

My response is that if someone is expecting to make $XXX by working for an established company that sort of reinforces my point


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i wasn't disagreeing with you. it was more pointing out that 5%+ is making 200k, 20%+ is making 100k+ in an industry that isn't medicine/lawyering/high finance... i think like ~120k puts someone as top 1% in the US for $ earned per household. i looked it up a few years back, it's somewhere in that range, might be 140k, but still not impossible to earn as a single income.

definitely doable for anyone who could make 100k in poker for them to make that much or more in real world jobs with the added benefit of job security, medical coverage, 401ks, less stress. sure, you have to work 2000 hours +, but it's a tradeoff for not having months where we lose money

Higher chance you bag 200k in poker than bag DiCap, you crazy bro? DiCap has a diamond cock.

Mike Starr's prop bet made opening this thread worth while.

???

Honestly, which is more important?


Nice. What's the structure for your 1/2? Would have snap taken that bet when I played somewhere with 1/2 100-300.

I know this isn't a popular topic in this thread but I have a few questions about taxes.

Are there any professionals that file as a recreational gambler to avoid paying SE Tax?

I think there would be a lot of cash game players that would benefit by filing as an amateur to avoid the extra taxes. For example, if someone only plays cash games in their home town and make 140k in total winnings and 40k in losses they would only pay 20k in income taxes. If they were to file as a professional, made 100k in profit and had no business write offs they would pay closer to 30k in taxes.

I guess what I am really asking is whether or not the IRS will dispute my claims to file as an amateur even if I am putting in part time/full time hours.

I've see a lot of examples of the IRS disputing whether someone can file as a pro or not but i've never seen them dispute it the other way.

I'd say you're pretty fkd either way. Gtfo the US and save the 25k pa