In my opinion, you're missing far and away the most important factor.

G1)theskilllevelofyouropponentsG

I'm guessing every market is different, and the definition of a "pro" can be a little dicey (is a retired guy who only plays poker a "pro"?), but in my room which basically only spreads 1/3 NL there is typically 1 pro (a non-retired person attempting this game for their main income) at each table (and sometimes more).

GeachmarketisdifferentG

It's relative.

I don't think we should be overcomplicated with identifying a professional. A person who does it for a living.

A semi-pro, a guy who does it part-time for a living. (I think this one is the more complicated one to label)

And yes, skill level is easily the most important factor. Cash on the table can only increase your win rate so much, if everyone is better than you & you're still very skilled. But you're not making any money.

So it's already factored into 2) skill level? Ok, fair enough.

GcluelessskilllevelnoobG

Id like to emphasize this point to everyone who thinks anything besides ABC bet/fold is FPS. Some times FPS is just FPS, other times FPS is thinking about the game in an out of the box way that can really improve winnings.

Add all this up and we have the key to knowledge of winning at poker.
1) Your personal, and needing-to-ever-improve skill level
2) Playing people you can beat with money in front of them (game selection)

Back when I played for a 'living,' I played some guys who I thought would be long term BE or small winners (2bb/hr, high vol) at the sino 1/3 game. I also knew they had way higher yearly earn than I did (and I beat one of them up pretty badly, on the regular). Why? I know they played in a SUPER-JUICY 2-5 homish game 3hrs north vs. a whale whose expectation was the vicinity of -100bb/hr nearly regardless of lineup, and other less-awful whales who also liked to play that game.

Play people you can beat in a way that beats them.

P.S. FPS spewtard champion is far and away the best way to play! Just ask me (can be confirmed by Miamicheats).

Alright. I spent some time playing in a similar game. I could see a 10-15 BB WR being doable long term in those games. I agree with squid and RP though as far as skill gap goes. Most of the people I hear complaining about "running bad" or variance have huge gaps in their game. If you experience absurd variance over a log period of time in llsnl you are most likely overestimating your edge. From what I have seen, If people got better at folding the upper end of their range in spots where they are never good I'm sure there would be much less whining about variance.

Its hilarious how people call down with like TPTK while shaking their head knowing they aren't good and then cry "WOW HOW DO I RUN SO BAD", as if they needed to see the hand that beat them to verify they were running bad.

Agreed that being unable to fold top % of range is a massive WR killer

and then they hold onto their hands, shake head, check cards again, then pause and whine for another 10 seconds before releasing them.

This almost tilts me more than people who tell you what they folded preflop every time they rivered a winning hand.

Fold lots and value bet thin and you'll win all the money.

Apologies for non WR derail, just an LLSNL advice moment.

Live donkey note: if a big, actiony fish does this... he'll like it if you join him once in awhile and be like: "Yo Rich-Life-Winner-Poker-Fish, can YOU believe what I folded before the flop". This also works far better if you are a loose player.
Why'd I ever fold J9? It always comes!
(despite being UTG+1 after a raise)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I usually say something along the lines of "WOW, you folded that?? Why'd you fold a full house? Cmon man you gatta stop folding!"

I agree that you should try to make light of every situation and don't let your frustrations become a bearing on other players (especially recs).

That being said, it still tilts me, even if I don't show it :P

Don't ever say that thing you wrote in the top para. Completely transparent and disingenuous

I think you're misunderstanding the context of it. This is a light-hearted sarcastic comment that's purposefully highlighting that their comment is silly (because you obviously can't call $100 pre with 83s expecting to river a boat, ldo). I agree that most shouldn't say that to people they don't play with all the time, but it's hardly "transparent and disingenuous" -- if anything it's just a friendly needle.

I'd discuss this more but the specifics of said conversation would border a derail, so I'll just leave it at that.

Hi LLSNL,

I think rake is lower in the US in general. Would you play? All figures are €uros.
Licensed Casino. No idea about the competition there though.

rake | pot
- | < 40 €
2 | 40-99
4 | 100 -199
6 | 200-299
8 | 300 -399
10|400+

No flop no drop obv.

Tanks in advance
somewhat_nitty

That is amazing rake. Looks like 2% up to max $10. Where I play (government casino), it's 10% up to max $8 (at $1/$2).

So I'm guessing like a 1/2 game with $200 BI?

Rake is actually quite awesome on the pots < $99 and still extremely reasonable on the $100 - $199 pots (better than most rooms I'm guessing), which I'm guessing probably make up the majority of the pots. Even on the $200 - $299 pots it equals my room (and would better than my room if there is no BBJ).

The only pots where it starts to suck is on the $300+ pots. But in a 1/2 game those will be the rarest pots unless it is a real action game. Those admittedly take a decent chunk, but might be offset by the rake you are saving on the smaller pots you'll ship more often.

My room takes 10% up to $6 max (plus a $1 BBJ), which I would guess is worse than your conditions, but I could be wrong.

GcluelessrakenoobG

Thanks for your replies. I wanted to post stakes but somehow forgot. It's 2/4 € NL Holdem only. There is another casino in reasonable distance spreading 1/2 but rake is ~5% with 30€ cap.

In the end it boils down to how many pots stay in the very good to very reasonable range of < $299 versus how many occur in the fairly poor >= $300.

ETA: Then again, if every single pot ends up >= $300 then that suggests you are sitting in a very good game (and could probably live with the poor rake if the game is that lively).

GcluelessrakenoobG

My casino is 10% cap 10 max and there is 0 tipping.

Yikes, that's gross!

GimoG

Also 5% 20 cap. (2/4)

Also no free drinks.

Hi guys,

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this but would like some opinions/thoughts?

What is considered a "big" win for a 1/3 session?

What about a decent win?

I bought in for 200 and cashed out with 585 what would you guys consider this?

Thanks!!