nice post sol. I would suggest definitely buying in a little deeper in the big game now, ease yourself back into it. Once you catch some sunrun at high stakes it will really help your confidence

Sol Reader-Nice to see you posting in this forum.

I can relate very well to your dilemma at hand. The answer is pretty simple. It all comes down your priorities and what you want out of poker. Let's review the options.

Option 1-
Stress free, variance free (Relative) grind at mid-stakes

Option 2-
Maximize earning potential at bigger games

A few things that you said really stuck out to me

1) "My life has improved so drastically since playing with a smaller % of my net worth"
2) "I'm happier and have more money than those spewtard god days"

From my eyes, you had quite a lot to say about the benefits of option 1. You didn't really have much to say about the benefits of option 2- only that your friend is teasing you for taking the easy way out. If you do decide on option 2- there has to be some sort of major benefit to offset the stress and variance. Pride and ego are not nearly enough.

The other issue I see from you second and third posts is game quality

"My hourly at 2/5 NL in the games when I grinded them was probably 80~, but I ran good so I had more. Nowadays it's probably like 50 since it's much tougher, maybe less. The bigger games probably give me 150+ hourly. If the hourly was remotely similar I'd only play the bigger game when it's super soft."

This definitely throws an interesting curve ball into your situation.

When we're you last in either?
Obviously for Alberta I mean more PLO, but 15-20 (25 might be a stretch) bb/hr is more than achievable in both of these areas with uncapped games. You still have fish buying into 2/5 with 20k in these areas. They're by far the two best poker areas in North America.

It's always tough to drop down in levels. There really should be no shame in doing so though. At the casino I play the biggest game is generally 5/T, yet some of the best players I know play at 2/5 because the games are just that much better. Even so, some players will never drop down even if that means staying in a game with 7 other pros.

I'm reminded of the Bellagio 5/T player that started a thread saying he made $14/hr this past year playing full time. Why put yourself through those swings when you should be able to print money at a faster rate than that in smaller buyin games? It makes no logical sense.

Regarding swings, I feel that if I play a game regularly the swings probably aren't going to affect me that much. However, if I'm unable to play that big of a game regularly (either because it doesn't run much or the lineups are frequently bad) then I'm not going to be able to play optimally regardless of my bankroll.

It's unreal to me that you can't see how this is possible, even in a small buy-in game. We are talking about a 400 hour sample. That is NOTHING. You can not extrapolate long-term winrates based on this data. If a crusher's winrate is $50 to $75 in a super soft 2/5 game then it shouldn't be a stretch at all that they run at $125/hr over 400 hrs. In fact, I know players that have had $20k+ months at 2/5 500cap and it's quite likely that these players are not winning players at all (But play a very loose aggressive swingy style). Heck, I saw a guy make $10k in one long session...then drop $7k....all in the same session. Again, this is 2/5 with a $500 cap.

Am I the only one that gets a kick out of the phrase "printing money?" Maybe it's because of the year I've had, but the poker grind we know it to be is contradictory with the concept of printing money.

I specifically had Florida in the quote, of which I've lived in for 30 years. There is exactly one regular uncapped game in the entire state under 5/10, and it's a 1/2 in the middle of nowhere.

Only one uncapped 5/10 I can think of (most capped at $2K), and then the 10/25/lol at Isle which I (guess?) is uncapped.

95% of 2/5s are capped at $500, the rest $1000. An exceptional long-term wr in these games is 12bb/hr. Anything >7bb/hr is very good.

This is the main issue. If the winrate at higher stakes is only slightly higher, I would be happy playing lower until I have money to blow. The issue is that the winrate at higher stakes can be 3-4x better easily.

Also another issue is that the games will get worse and it's important to save money and also keep game sharp. If I know I can sustain the hourly I have at lower stakes forever, which is likely but not definitely and also doesn't account for inflation, then I'd have no issue, but things change, so there's strong argument for getting as much money now as possible while you still can.

Mental health is important though. FWIW it sounds to me like you were in a tough place, made some sensible decisions, things are a lot better. Now you're getting hungry but are (reasonably) concerned about getting your face kicked in again.

Seems to me like you should take some hours in the bigger game and pick the most favourable times to do so. Set a stop loss. Don't worry about the result because you're 'taking shots' even though from a BRM perspective you can afford to go full time in the bigger game.

Mental health is 100% of this game and there is zero debate on that fact

Variance sucks (and rules sometimes) but without the mental fortitude to handle both sides of it, you're a fish whether you admit it or not

I should probably qualify that I've been playing in those games a lot, and I'm extremely comfortable playing in them, I just haven't been buying in super deep, so it's not really an issue of playing or not playing so much as whether I want to be deep.

When you're playing PLO with 400bbs, a lot of things can go wrong no matter how tight you play.

Homerdash, I'm not too sure what you're trying to say.

Wrong, since without poker skill it doesn't matter how mentally skilled you are. Maybe you mean 'without a robust mental game you can never crush poker for a living no matter how good you are'? Which is true but not the same.

Yeah, I get that; what I meant is that I doubt this is sustainable long term in a capped game. Anyways, it's irrelevant as it sounds like Sol is in more-or-less uncapped games.

GcluelesscappedgamenoobG

I'd argue that 50% of the game is mental. Keeping focused and avoiding tilt (both winning and losing) and all of that side of it. But the other 50% is poker skill. Hand reading. Math and odds for single spots and ranges, understanding and manipulating table conditions, table selection, etc. Then about 10% is just luck. If you start playing and immediately get hit by the variance hammer you're not likely to continue playing long enough to become a good player. Or even if you are a bit of epic runbad can easily put you out of action.

They're both equally important to becoming a long term winner.

2k capped 5/10 NL games tend to play pretty deep (at least compared o the 1500 capped 5/10 NL games at Commerce and Bellagio). From what I have heard from Florida pros, the 5/10 NL 2k cap games in Florida often have really deep stacks and juicy lineups.

More so for online but there's definitely a physical aspect to the game. People who are in shape physically are far less likely to get burned out then go on tilt or make snap decisions.

So probably something like 80% of the game is half mental.

So 40% of the game is mental?

It's kind of silly to quantify something that is intangible.

If you are a tilt monkey, then 90% of the game for you is probably mental.

If you are rather normal, then a much lower percentage would seem applicable.

ATsai, while this used to be true, 5/10 has really dried up in sfla (and only other place it goes is tampa)

Average stack size is definitely <$2K in most games at Isle. When a 5/10 at HR goes, it can get sorta deep I guess. I mean in these games you'll see one dude on a heater sitting on $4K, sure. But most non regs buy in for $1k and most of the regs are fairly good.

PBKC has the only real good game left, and it mostly runs in the winter months.

Just trying to keep things honest in the wr thread. Not being combative or protective.

More importantly, I constantly see misinformation spread as gospel in this thread. It is clear the poster I was responding to has little insight into present day Florida games, and yet is providing a guidance on WR in them.

Avaritia,

I was referring to the present day games in Florida. I know people who are playing the 5/10 2k cap and 10/25 games. I have also heard that the Florida regs/pros are bad...at least significantly worse than the LA regs/pros (from pros who have had significant sample in LA and Florida)

Rp : it was a joke.

Im gonna have to agree with this. Ive been playing close to full time hours in these S. Florida games for 9-10 months now so I can confirm that Avaritia speaks the truth.

I will add one thing. There's a 5/10 with a $300 max buy in at PBKC which has to be the softest 5/10 game in the universe. Of course the structure is so weird that it takes some adjustment but 90% of the players couldnt beat a 1/2 game I think they just want to say they play 5/10. You wouldnt think you could make much money with such little money on the table but stacks start to grow as people double up and the people who got busted rebuy over and over. Most good players want to play deep stacked so apparently they avoid this game, but they are making a mistake.

Ive never played in LA so I cant compare but there's no way I would say the 5/10 everyday pros in S. Florida are "bad". There are some very good players in those games but like everywhere there are also some obvious soft spots. Mostly when the snowbirds are here.

If a game is really soft doesn't posting about it on 2p2 make it more likely to become harder in the future? Why do that to yourself?

Will stop the derail after this (although it speaks to game conditions which directly relates to WR)

There is exactly one room that has a consistent 5/10. That is Isle. Hardrock may get one going on Fri/Sat (though often it doesnt) Tampa may get one on Fri/Sat (though often it doesnt)

So I don't know where all of these juicy 5/10 games(S) are going, but it's not in 2016. In reality there is one game that goes, it is at isle, and it has several very good regs, several 100 year old nits, and a few bad business owners etc. It is a bad to okay game during the week and yes will get 1-2 must moves on the weekend and be slightly good to decent.

A good 5/10 in sfla is a novelty, it is not the norm.

That is not to say there isn't good high stakes action here. If you play plo, then sfla (or tampa) still offers great action And I might entertain the claim that 20bb/hr was achievable at 2/5 plo here. But 5/10 NL is dead, and has been for a few years now.

There are probably less than 10 real NL pros down here. I'd define a "real" pro as someone making > $100K with poker as their sole source of income. So I do not know who the sources are but they are either exaggerating, mislead, or in 2011.

I actively avoid speaking about the best local games I know about in local threads (like the Detroit thread), but here I'm not sure it makes much difference. Doesn't matter if I know about the juiciest game on the planet if I'm stuck 2000 miles away.