This makes sense. If you hit and run often, you'll earn more than those putting their profits at risk.

You are so right! However, I believe that a player who is going to churn up a $400/$500 profit over 4/5/6 hours & then sit at a table & risk it all vs. several other deep stacks needs a 50 BI bankroll. That's $15,000.00 in my 1/2 NLHE games. I only have 9k.

I want to be able to handle one of Devonshire's 18 month downswings.

I would be closer to 15k but I buy the groceries on the months I win & pay for my gas. Take my wife out to dinner when I score a $400+ win, etc. There is no doubt I've burned thru 3k. Could be closer to 4k, so I could have a ~13k roll if I never took a dime out of my winning and paid for all my expenses out of the household account. Wouldn't the wife love that!

I do not work. My wife does. I have a military retirement. We have NO
debt except the mortgage. Life is good.

Life would not be so good if I had to tell the wifey I turned 9k into 3k & may need to take money out of the bank to refurbish my roll.

I like being able to sustain a loss of $500 one day & play poker thru the whole session without thinking "Wow! Looks like I'm going to flush $500 down the toilet today!"

This is a leak i'm also guilty of, overspending when running good is so bad for the br...

i read somewhere (might of been in this thread) paying yourself a fixed hourly prevents those kind of dumb spending reflexes & also keeps you motivated while downswinging, yet I don't do it huuuhhh. I pay everything with my poker roll beside my phone/insurance bills. 18months downswing id be broke halfway

Holy freakin' shyt! An "Honest Injun!" [no disrespect meant to my Native Americans whom I love dearly. Sorry about that genocide them white trash descendents of mine inflicted upon you]

I was actually referring to the poast not the poaster

what good is making 100K a year if you have to put in 100 hrs a week to achieve it?

what good is having an hourly rate of $50 if you can only work 20 hrs a week?

Yearly earnings and hourly winrate are equally important in the right contexts, imo.

bingo. ATsai's volume argument is kind of moot when you play part time (<1200 hrs/yearly), since you could potentially be running above or below expectation for three years. though i do notice that longer sessions converge on true wr (or whatever it looks as though true wr is)

GG, I'm 8.81/hr over 2237 (since March 2013). i'll check back in when robfarha does in 2018 (when we're all playing superstud/big-o) to see if i'm running above/below

Think the best solution is if you have a solid BR is just to set an amount that you take out of your BR every month regardless of how you do. yea if you crush it go and splash on a nice dinner but planning on taking out a certain amount of money just lets you plan ahead so much more

yeah, i agree.

i would say if you play part time, you probably shouldn't even calc a WR. you should just worry about your bottom line. i made 3453 dollars in October... my bankroll is 23,032. just keep it simple. you're [part timers] funded through your job anyway so your RoR is basically 0 as long as you arent a degen that will hock everything and max out credit.

WR is going to matter more for grinders because it's an expectation. take your monthly nut, then you can figure out the number of hours needed to play in a month to break even, number to make X amount of money, blah, blah, blah. thats actually pretty helpful because if you have a bunch of extraneous stuff in a month or Xmas time is tough for you to play or whatever, you can still say, "i gotta get to the cardroom for X hours"

thats just my opinion tho, so take it or leave it

If you look through this thread you will find tons of players with crushing winrates but only a handful of them (or less) are actually crushing players. That is what is wrong with this thread. Posting these misleading winrates can be detrimental to people reading them as well as the people posting them.

The primary reason I bought a session tracker:
1. All this talk on 2+2 about WRs
2. To track my tips. Holy Shyt these dealers are expensive!
I've turned into one of the most conservative tippers around & still the variance.........
You don't get a tip rebate when you lose a pot.

Also, I play ~30 hrs per week, so I was lookin' forward to seeing my results after a year.

I don't track my promotion money. I get a 1099 at the end of the year. Doesn't take skill to get promo cash.

That matters because?

There are a ton of questionable information in this subforum by people posting their opinions that are rarely backed with any math or rational evidence.

Those opinions are no different than posts of winrates in this thread, except winrate posts are done in graphs and with numbers, and somehow they appear to be more convincing than just words to average readers.

Sounds like we need a containment thread.

Anyone watching the baseball playoffs? Notice how they are posting the batting averages for the playoffs only? So, like, based on a lol ~20 at bats to date? I mean, lol, ban batting averages in the playoffs, amirite?

Ditto for hockey goalies GAA. The gall at posting these after a lol 4 games! So obviously posting these on broadcasts should be banned until... next year sometime?

Gpeopleliketoknowhowtheyarefaring,thereisnothingwr ongwithit,takeitforwhatitis,imoG

I track promo money, but I track it under a different name in Session Tracker so I can filter it out.

It should be tracked, IMO.

I try to play as often as I can when the casino is running splash pot promotions (NFL football usually). It's promo money, but you gotta play for it... so it's kinda both promo and in-game money. I don't filter for that.

Promo money is basically rebate from jackpot drop. Not tracking it as part of winrate doesn't make sense.

However, if it's a big chunk like BBJ, tracking it doesn't make sense.

Over the last few days there has been some discussion about staying and playing after running up your buy in a ton during a single session. I firmly believe that sitting in the games i play in with 400bb+ is great.

So with very little real data to back this up, what percentage increase to a win rate do you speculate one could see if you were permitted to buy in for an amount equal to biggest stack at the table in live low stakes?

My usual casino 1/2 has a 300 buy in cap. Anyone know of casinos with higher 1/2 caps and\or where you can buy in up to largest stack at the table?

Sent from my LG-D801 using 2+2 Forums

In the playoffs, the hard-core baseball fans are interested in how hot the hitters are running. Not their long-term average. The fans already know those by heart. And, if they don't, they've got their trusty lil' electronic gadget that does everything [along with taking phone calls] to look them up.

Well, that puts some at an unfair advantage. I play ~15 hours Mon-Thu & get $100 on Friday. I play about 25-30 hrs per week. If I avg that $100 into my winrate, that's an additional ~$4.00 per hour.

Now, if I come into this thread & say "Hey, my WR is $15 long-term so far, others can relate. But if I tack on the $4.00 & say $19........wtf?!

Not all casinos give back $4 per hour in cash to the players and it took no skill on my part to get it. My $15 WR is based strictly on skill.

Time traveling pre-Founding Father ITT!

How good are you at playing deep? Few of us are great at it if recs, as we don't get a lot of practice at it, and it's an expensive skill to learn. Pros tend to have a big advantage deep over even very good recs due to experience.

Yes, though not as many as it used to be. Uncapped games still exist (such as Golden Nugget in downtown Vegas) as do match the big stack (Harrah's NOLA), as well as a few $X or 2/3 of biggest stack , though I can't recall where I saw these of the top of my head.

Most rooms have learned that capped buy-ins keep the fish from going broke so fast and burning out the poker economy, though.

Lol

You just highlighted the inherited flaw of looking at short-term win rate.

Most players don't see that many of their sessions hinge on 1 or 2 big hands, and whether you win or lose those hands will result in +100bb or -200bb that session.

They also don't recognize the few times that a giant whale walks into the game and dumps thousands, and they see those results as part of their brag.

And not all casinos rake the same amount of money.

Most players also do not track their tips or expenses when they are at the poker table, and they fail to recognize the impact of those "little" things. If you routinely order food/drinks and tip $1 per hour, that is $1 off your WR. If you routinely tip more than your peer, that's another $x off your WR.

There are many ways to skew WR and nobody is really comparing apple to apple when posting WR in this thread.

At end of the day, you have to ask yourself, why are you tracking these stats?

FWIW, it isn't his argument as he's simply using his own words to quote someone else's recent post.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2515

IDK if this is a troll or not but its so obviously not true. unless you have massive leaks playing deep and can't handle the emotional swings and pressure then hitting and running is just not a good strategy. For one you play off your WR. you play more hours, you make more money, thats how its works. If you always cut your session short just because you are winning then you make play less hours and make less. Also when you are winning you are in a better state of mind and play better, not playing when you are playing your best is really just not smart. Finally there is some equity in the intimating factor of having a big stack, which really does effect how people see and play against you. Having a winning image matters.

Also nobody likes someone who hits and runs.

Irt to the dudes posting the super high wr / low volume.

They're happy. They're proud. They want to share. They want someone to pat them on the back tell them what a great job they've done.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Although some are probably for other reasons like trying to drum up coaching or w/e

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If some of those guys actually believed their true wr is 20/bb hr don't you think they would slaying the live games 1800hr/yr instead of primarily trying to grind out small stakes online?

Let them post. It's nice to see where all my run good is going