meale, my response to your last paragraph is basically that if you're a pro, why would you ever live where those conditions don't exist? Unless you have family needs, I really don't know why anyone aspiring to make 10+bb/hr would attempt it in places where it is significantly tougher to do so. There are great games available in places. I mainly play PLO live now because 10bb/hr is much, much easier than in NLHE. It's attainable in NLHE in the room I play, but it's not the easiest thing in the world.

10bb/hr isn't super tough for a good player who doesn't handicap themselves. If you're playing in a bad room, overrate your own ability, you're not going to have much fun. My friends who are poker pros travel constantly. Florida, Vegas, Chicago, Montreal, home games and wherever there are big tournaments. You find the good games. This is why they have great win rates. You could just play in your own room and exploit the regs there, but the amount you can improve your win rate from that alone is limited.

@ meale: Thats a good point about low variance poker. I think I fit into this category. Most of the posts I put in this forumn are of situations where I'm stepping into the highest variance situations I'll tolerate. I'd call myself a Semi Aggressive Tight player. Somewhere between NIT and TAG. But when the entire table is NIT or super loose passive, this strategy has been just the Tops so far.

@ Leo: I've noticed that it takes time, patience, and perseverance. As I've stated before, I'll log 10+ hours sessions where after 5 hours I'm even, but then end the session up 1000. This has been the case 6 times out of 12 10+ hours sessions I have. Others its a slow grind for 6 hours, while I've also won 1200 in 2.5 hour, and lost 600 in 3 hours.

I tried online again today... I have no idea whats going on anymore in that game. I am so dependent upon reads now, its amazing.

Now this I'll agree with. I never said 10BB/hr is "standard" or easy, just that it's possible. I def think it's crushing, and there are fewer crushers out there than claimed.

They told us to stop talking about Dwight Howard.

I don't have a huge sample size as online is a significantly better option than Treasury; but 10bb/hr is perfectly reasonable at 2/4 in Brisbane even with the $200-$250 raked per hour.

Casinos have lowest wr. Home games best. But u need that premium for home games to compensate your risk. Ie politics. Robbery. Higher rake. Getting banned. Police. Etc.

My hourly expectation is probably 20-30 percent greater at home games.

Hard to really tell cause vast majority of my 4k live hours is home game.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using 2+2 Forums

here is how my man.

When I sit at the table I can literally taste my edge. I see people doing silly stuff that I would never do. Last night for example this dude limped 45o from UTG and called my iso raise to 25. This is obv neg ev for him. Another clown defended his sb from an ep open to 20 with 24o

I am also applying pressure in the correct spots. My opponents however tend to do the opposite. They will do aggro crap at the most un opportune times - ie spaz shove when they have no fold equity v a better hand.

The list goes on and on. If you sit at the table and are able to formulate a decent game plan against your opponents that makes good sense you are def on your way to becoming a solid winning player.

I have a very deep bag of tricks and am able to adjust to my opponents long before they even think about what I am up to. I have worked damn hard to become a 10+bb/hr winner...and as mr Farha stated this is NOT the benchmark of a good player - dudes like me are few and very far between. I am NOT a rock star. I am a bar band that goes in every night and plays my set of tunes quite well. I have never written a great song. I know what I am capable of doing and stick to it

I also agree with rob F - I think winning 5-6bb/hr is A OK...I know several vegas regs who win just that and they are solid poker players who I totally respect

Of the people who have done this most of them probably played different locales at different times. So the time difference is going to be a major variable. Unless it's a guy who plays LA/LV, i.e. But the most likely case is someone playing a lot, moving, and playing a lot years later.

This exactly.

I have less than 400 hours of live play but I know beyond a doubt that I am a crusher. I radiate supreme confidence which makes weaker minded regs fear playing against me. I am 100% focused in every hand that is played. I catch every subtle detail in betsizing, physical tells, and emotions. When it is my turn to act I am 100% aware of and in control of my body and emotions. I do not care about money or results. I do not allow my mind to wander thus I do not get bored. I am always actively looking for ways to exploit players in every hand they play.

When I see other regs they are bored out of their minds. They don't pay attention to the game. They listen to music, watch sports, they have their attention on their phones or tablets. They do not want to be there grinding but they stay anyway. I will give them credit for having some discipline and waiting for good hands but they fail to maximize value with them. They fail to fold the 2nd nuts vs the obvious nuts. They fail to make good bluffs. They make bad bluffs. They are over aggressive vs the wrong opponents in the wrong situations. They become hot headed and play with to much emotion. They have no self awareness. They cannot play objectively. Most of these leaks can be remedied by paying ATTENTION to the game. But most people will not make that effort.

I am usually a troll and don't contribute poker advice to any thread but here is a tip for those that play zombie/robotic poker and are marginal winners.

The most important thing to work on besides your poker game if you want to become a live crusher is your attention/concentration. If you can maintain the 'zone' at the tables your game will change 100%. PM me if you have any questions on how to do this. It will be very hard are first and you will have to make sacrifices.

The last few pages of this thread have turned into a Stuart Smally skit.

mreps, were you an athlete growing up? Reason I ask is I played tons of sports growing up and consider myself a pretty competitive person and I consider maintaining your "A" game akin to being in the zone for sports, maintaining your focus, discipline, etc.

I think I play my "A" game more often than not and usually just leave when I notice myself devolving to B or more rarely a horrible C game. I'm sometimes guilty of messing around on my phone (ie: like right now while at the table), but I feel one of my better poker edges is just paying better attention than my opponents, stealing those 5-10 BB pots that are up for grabs preflop due to limping, straddling etc.

I wrestled for 6 years but I do not attribute my willpower or my ability to hold attention to that. My main reason for my focus is because I am cultivating a mind for meditation. I make an effort to conserve energy and expanding awareness within and without 24 hours a day.

Paying close attention is really difficult at first. Good news is that you start to pick up on more and more without any effort as time goes on. Just takes time and effort to get to the point where you automatically pick up on most of the important stuff.

this graph looks like the low stakes version of Isildur's graph..what happened between the hrs of 150-200? spew and run bad?

bip! is very aggressive and mostly plays mid-stakes PLO these days. I think he tends to overestimate FE at LLSNL.

1/3NL exclusively during that time, IMO.

^that pretty much sums it up. I sincerely try to win, but I can't lay off the bluffs.

The last 50 hours is probably over the course of > 1 year. It is mostly like 30-60 minute sessions while I wait for a PLO seat. The first section of the graph is when I was playing 2/5 regularly and running very hot which led me to moving up to other games (5/T NL and PLO).

Did you have any tackles for losses?

Ugh, I got a few more PMs than expected. I guess I'm kinda obligated to answer them now. I'll get something typed up later today as a general guide then I'll answer individual questions after. If anyone else is interested in my 'how to crush poker for 10bb+ an hour its only $99.97.

Just send me a pm.

best post in this thread last few pages. this is exactly right.


the issue you guys have with your winrate calcs is that you don't realize how often players are making 100/bb per hand mistakes against the biggest winners and how they are able to not feel the burn of that due to variance and other whales making 100bb mistakes against them. they end up staying in the games due to those two factors and when they don't new players cycle in who are ready to take another shot.

the thing that some of you realize but others don't is that 200bb pots are rarely anywhere near 100bb mistakes from either party, when range and equity are taken into account, but there are often those spots especially in non all in spots.

for example I saw a hand at west palm beach kennel club where a guy opens to 15 utg gets 4 calls and cbets 100 into 60 on a 34Kr board, this guy tanks and nervously raises to 210, the utg snap shoves 300 more with AK and the raiser called with K10.


this is a single hand instance where his (raise on the flop+call on the flop) minus the equity he has after the call is probably in the 80big blind in a single hand region.

these hands are common in live poker but due to his equity and the frequency in which dumpers dump to each other the games stay running and the only job of a pro is to make sure they are in as many of these spots as possible.

underrated contribution

lulz

In all my excuses for my skydiving winrate (whales/fish in pool getting better, total lack of table selection often reducing me to sitting in a poor single game for long periods of time, and the standard whine of all losing players "I'm running bad", all of which I believe are true), I'll have to admit that there is also a good chance I'm the poster boy for the above. I'm convinced I'm a winner in this game, but I now believe an early good stretch has really thrown my winrate out-of-wack.

GcluelesswinratesnoobG


Nice!

Gshouldalostyourphonebetweenhours155-180,imoG

Suitable for framing IMO /thread

Just surpassed another milestone after yesterday's session: $100,000 mark breached for the first time (all games / stakes from when I started playing back in early 2006).

I mean, sure, almost 1/3rd of those winnings were in a single BBJ hand at a 2/4 Limit table, but it all counts.

Gclueless$100KwinneratthepokersG

And now we know what it takes to crush LLSNL.

EV is EV, regardless of its source.