[OFFICIAL] Winrates, bankrolls, and finances - Page 403 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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[OFFICIAL] Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

View Poll Results: What is your Win Rate in terms of BB per Housr

Less than 0 (losing)

5 6.41%

0-2.5

0 0%

2.5-5

6 7.69%

5-7.5

8 10.26%

7.5-10

15 19.23%

10+

26 33.33%

Not enough sample size/I don't know

18 23.08%

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08-25-2015 , 10:51 AM

#10051

nicname

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 647

I would be depressed. Maybe he's just rich, but I can't imagine losing 23k at 1/3 and feeling very good about things. I play poker for fun, but it isn't fun to blow money at that rate.

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08-25-2015 , 10:57 AM

#10052

ZuneIt

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,160

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid face

what cronchop sed

it appears u are asking how to avoid giving our great nation your fair share of taxes which is an ill advised act. I would start by asking a moderator to delete your post

You're jokin' right? I mean anyone who hasn't been livin' in a cave has heard of all the corrupt spending by the federal government.

Now it's the 33k spent by Homeland Security in 2013 at Starbucks that wasn't properly documented. As far as I'm concerned, there is no way to properly document that! We don't work to buy federal employees coffee.

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08-25-2015 , 10:57 AM

#10053

BirdsallSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 723

Quote:

Originally Posted by cAmmAndo

Got a glimpse of something that you won't see posted as a brag in the usual BR post....

Profile of an 8bb/hr loser.

I saw something rather fascinating this weekend. Fascinating because rarely can you confirm via data such things and are left to only speculation in live poker.

A loosing 1/3 player was showing his results to another player at the table. I actually took a pic of his screen (Johnny buzz can confirm as I texted it to him). It was a sea of red.

Over 1k hrs at 1/3 this player is more than -23k or -$23.50/hr. He loses 2/3 of his sessions (he claims that's improved from winning 20%) and has a std dev $186/hr.

Some bullet points:

-He usually buys in short often $100-$200 in a $500 cap game.
-on the rare occasion he builds a stack he goes south when he table changes. Or quits.
-His pf hand range is better than the avg LLSNL player but he does call raises for too much of his stack then fold missed flops.
-he blows People out of pots when he flops an overpair regardless of stack size. He protects his hand at all costs including over committing when deeper when he's out flopped.
-he bombs way ahead / way behind spots when he thinks he's ahead (senses weakness) and chk/ folds when he thinks he's behind (scared of board or senses strength). So he constantly misses value by folding the best med strength hands or over betting and folding all worse hands while paying off better with premiums or flopped big hands with a small equity edge that turned bad.
-he set mines with hopelessly bad implied odds.
-he mostly seems terrified of turns and rivers.
-he mostly never bluffs.
-he is attempting to avoid variance.

Wow. I've always found it somewhat difficult to believe that there could be a constant influx of money in a pool of losing players. This drives the point home though. If this guy is willing to lose 80 buyins in only 1000 hours, TRACKING HIS RESULTS, imagine how much the true fish are losing and they think they're "More or less ahead".

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08-25-2015 , 11:02 AM

#10054

ZuneIt

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,160

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyCopter

Yeah, actually for the past couple months I've been wearing sunglasses while playing (its actually pretty bright in the room) which I think is getting me more action on average. I'm also a young looking dude which helps.

If you wear a hoodie & your name isn't Phil Laak, or you use a card protector & your name isn't Greg Raymer, you wear a cowboy hat & your name isn't Doyle Brunson, or you wear sunglasses & your name isn't Chris Ferguson........ you're probably a fish.

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08-25-2015 , 11:04 AM

#10055

BirdsallSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 723

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuneIt

Can't say whether he was joking about the first part or not, though I definitely can see how it could read satirically. The second part of his post is legitimate advice. Regardless of your stance on the morality of income tax, if you're going to break a law that is so heavily researched once suspicion lands on you, the last thing you should do is post about your plans to do it on an internet forum.

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08-25-2015 , 11:09 AM

#10056

BirdsallSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 723

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuneIt

If you wear a hoodie & your name isn't Phil Laak, or you use a card protector & your name isn't Greg Raymer, you wear a cowboy hat & your name isn't Doyle Brunson, or you wear sunglasses & your name isn't Chris Ferguson........ you're probably a fish.

Assuming someone is a fish for wearing a hoodie and sunglasses, okay, whatever I guess. How exactly does using a card protector weight someone towards being a fish?

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08-25-2015 , 11:20 AM

#10057

DonkeyCopter

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,320

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuneIt

Players assuming I'm a fish is exactly what I want, regardless of whether or not I'm actually a fish

Quote

08-25-2015 , 11:30 AM

#10058

BirdsallSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 723

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyCopter

Players assuming I'm a fish is exactly what I want, regardless of whether or not I'm actually a fish

Do you find that wearing the sunglasses affects your table image in any negative ways? Are people less likely to hold conversation with you? Are resc intimidated? Etc... Or do you find everyone just looks at you as some aggressive fish?

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08-25-2015 , 11:42 AM

#10059

Evil Empire36

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 256

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdsallSa

No it just makes you look like a tool.

Quote

08-25-2015 , 11:44 AM

#10060

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Empire36

No it just makes you look like a tool.

+1 on sunglasses wearing players being tools

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08-25-2015 , 11:51 AM

#10061

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

+1 on sunglasses wearing players being tools

Not to go too far down the path, but sunglasses and/or headphones/earbuds are bad for image and bad for the game.

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08-25-2015 , 11:54 AM

#10062

Havax

grinder

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 597

I wonder if the ratio of overall losing players : winning players is even a larger disparity when it comes to people who wear sunglasses that are winners : people who wear sunglasses that are losers.

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08-25-2015 , 12:00 PM

#10063

kookiemonster

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,652

There is a bad reg (hellova nice guy though) in my pool that used to be there everyday. Lately though, you only see him on the weekdays, sometimes only in the first half of the week. Another reg was mentioning that he didn't see him around as often as usual and the bad reg explained that his wife has put him on a strict gambling budget. When pressed further he admitted that he was losing too much but now it is ok because he has a strict stop loss of $2500/week.

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08-25-2015 , 12:02 PM

#10064

BirdsallSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 723

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookiemonster

You have a bad reg in your player pool? I don't believe it.

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08-25-2015 , 12:20 PM

#10065

DonkeyCopter

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,320

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdsallSa

I chat people up in general. I will take the shades off if I'm holding consistent conversation with someone else at the table, or folding alot. Most times I leave them on my head and put them on after I've opened a pot, and I definitely get more action this way.

I NEVER use headphones/earbuds; this puts off a tighter vibe and is definitely bad for the game.

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08-25-2015 , 01:39 PM

#10066

suited fours

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,143

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuneIt

fyp

DonkeyCopter with that WR, keep doing what you're doing.

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08-25-2015 , 01:49 PM

#10067

suited fours

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,143

Quote:

Originally Posted by cAmmAndo

most amazing bit is that he tracks it.

very cool info. thanks for sharing.

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08-25-2015 , 01:56 PM

#10068

nicname

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 647

In the last two days we've had a dude ask how to avoid paying taxes, tangible evidence of the depravity of a losing reg degen, and a discussion of sunglasses at the table.

Really hitting the whole gambit lately. Very entertaining.

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08-25-2015 , 02:02 PM

#10069

srbrain

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havax

What is the maximum amount of cash I can put into my bank account every month that won't get looked at by the IRS that I don't have to report as income? My accountant once said something about there was a $14,000 (this number could be wrong) gift exception of money you can get from family members per year tax-free.

Therefore does this mean the maximum amount I can deposit is $14k of my poker earnings each year without having to report it?

Background on me if it matters: I own a small business is my only official source of income. I currently keep all my poker earnings in cash in a safe and spend it via cash without ever letting it touch my bank. What is the most I can put in my bank safely each month/year?

I have been audited by the IRS. The very first thing they do is look at your bank statements and they want proof of where every deposit came from. Their number one priority is finding unreported income. If you put money in a bank account it is permanently there for audit.

I quit playing the cash hiding game and started reporting 100% of poker income a couple of years ago. It feels good to be honest and it has solidified how I feel about poker as a second job. I believe being professional in all aspects of poker leads to better success.

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08-25-2015 , 02:22 PM

#10070

BirdsallSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 723

Quote:

Originally Posted by srbrain

IRS in the thread confirmed

Quote

08-25-2015 , 03:04 PM

#10071

NeverLosesAtPoker

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 4,448

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_124

surprising that the guy was honest enough to track these losing results over 1K hands. I feel like most losing players would either quit or delude themselves into thinking they aren't losing as much as they are.

One time a 5/T player was telling me how he tracks his results in a spreadsheet. He told me he was losing $20k a month. However, he chalked it all up to run bad lol.

I know another player that lost $18k in his first month of 2/5 and is now a fulltime player. He's not a very strong player but he's good enough to be a marginal winner in a soft 2/5 game...and obviously much improved over what he was when he first started.

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08-25-2015 , 04:39 PM

#10072

scourrge

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 175

For what it's worth, I don't think the type of player who tracks results falls into this category usually, but I personally don't look disparagingly on those losing 23.50/hour doing something they presumably enjoy - it can be purely entertainment budget.

Sounds unusual, but I don't think I would call them a super degen or anything. Pretty sure the biggest losers lose more than the biggest winners win.

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08-25-2015 , 05:13 PM

#10073

cAmmAndo

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,727

Quote:

Originally Posted by scourrge

To be clear I make no value judgement on the guy.

I'm fairly certain most who would watch him on any given night would assume he was a small loser in the game.

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08-25-2015 , 05:46 PM

#10074

cAmmAndo

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,727

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdsallSa

IRS in the thread confirmed

Meh.... Prob better off over at PG&C

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08-25-2015 , 06:11 PM

#10075

nicname

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 647

I think you're prob right for a lot of these guys, especially the "retired with money" types. I shouldn't have been so quick to judge.

I see a lot of guys who are constantly losing, look miserable doing it, and don't seem all that well off. It's pretty gross.

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