[OFFICIAL] Winrates, bankrolls, and finances - Page 317 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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[OFFICIAL] Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

View Poll Results: What is your Win Rate in terms of BB per Housr

Less than 0 (losing)

5 6.41%

0-2.5

0 0%

2.5-5

6 7.69%

5-7.5

8 10.26%

7.5-10

15 19.23%

10+

26 33.33%

Not enough sample size/I don't know

18 23.08%

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09-14-2014 , 11:45 AM

#7901

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

Well let me ask you this then, what would you consider deep?

Assuming one was playing fulltime with limited ability to reload.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using 2+2 Forums

Well, you have to consider that whatever money you invest, and whatever vehicle you invest in, for it to be viable your money is going to have to be tied up a long time. So, I would say that you need to have a full bankroll and something like a year's liferoll in liquid cash, so you won't find yourself selling assets at the wrong time to pay the bills. You can invest what you save up on top of that.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 11:47 AM

#7902

bip!

Slow Pony

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14,205

I would say that unless you have 100+ buy ins for the biggest regular game in your area... investment is a poor choice.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 11:49 AM

#7903

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by bip!

I would say that unless you have 100+ buy ins for the biggest regular game in your area... investment is a poor choice.

Yeah like as a poker player it's real nice to be cash rich

Quote

09-14-2014 , 11:50 AM

#7904

de4df1sh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 6,893

Geez guys, I was beginning to feel that all of this cash in my safe could be put to better use in other vehicles.

Now I feel under rolled lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using 2+2 Forums

Quote

09-14-2014 , 11:55 AM

#7905

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

Yeah I mean, tbh I think a full-time grinder with no other income source needs to be rolled really deep in general, because risk of ruin = risk of going homeless.

First investment you should make, I think, is buy a house and pay it off as soon as possible. Having your own home (paid-for) is a HUUUUUUGE freeroll because then no matter what happens to your finances you will never lose it (and also because it cuts your living expenses 30-50%).

Quote

09-14-2014 , 11:56 AM

#7906

bip!

Slow Pony

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14,205

You could siphon off bits of profit to build an investment roll - that would be better than taking a massive chunk of BR at once IMO. It also depends what your goals are with poker. If you want to climb to high stakes, the investment is yourself. If you want to hit 2/5 for life (which is just fine) - then you can peel a lot of profit out of your poker roll.

Sometimes there is a big game, built around a whale, that is going to require 5~10x the buy in you are used to... there is a lot of value in being able to sit in that game.

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09-14-2014 , 11:57 AM

#7907

bip!

Slow Pony

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 14,205

House is the worst investment IMO... flexibility rules, and a house is anything but that.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 12:07 PM

#7908

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

Geez guys, I was beginning to feel that all of this cash in my safe could be put to better use in other vehicles.

Now I feel under rolled lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using 2+2 Forums

Open up a investment checking account at Charles Schwab, no atm fees and it's uncapped withdrawals.

Also look at a high interest savings account at a brick and mortar credit union. You'll likely not be able to withdraw from an ATM but you might get decent interest rates

Quote

09-14-2014 , 12:17 PM

#7909

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by bip!

House is the worst investment IMO... flexibility rules, and a house is anything but that.

Well what I mean by that is, I mean, get a cheap house and pay it off outright. Not get a big house and tie yourself down to a mortgage. I'm just thinking that as a full time pro your risk of ruin is never zero, and the prospect of going busto sucks donkey balls. By owning a house or a condo, and not having to pay for it, you're basically insured vs homelessness. You can do whatever you want with your life and you have a fallback.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 12:35 PM

#7910

de4df1sh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 6,893

Fwiw I live at home with my parents ATM until I have enough side cash for a fat down payment on a home.

The purpose of investing was to accelerate that process.

Girl also has decent job.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using 2+2 Forums

Quote

09-14-2014 , 12:39 PM

#7911

homerdash

banned

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,062

Even "owning" a house/condo doesn't guarantee anything because you'll always have property taxes and condo fees to pay each year, along with insurance etc.

Point is, def need big amounts of liquidity at all times if you're a pro

Quote

09-14-2014 , 04:03 PM

#7912

GrindPokerAllDay

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,326

Best thing for a poker pro is to live expense free. This can be accomplished quite easily by purchasing a home (with or without a mortgage) and renting out the other bedrooms to roommates.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 04:13 PM

#7913

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by de4df1sh

Buy a duplex, live in it for one year, rent the other half.

Look at FHA deals

Quote

09-14-2014 , 05:17 PM

#7914

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay

Best thing for a poker pro is to live expense free. This can be accomplished quite easily by purchasing a home (with or without a mortgage) and renting out the other bedrooms to roommates.

If your home has a mortgage you can't really get enough money out of roomers to be expense-free.

If it doesn't, you can.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 05:41 PM

#7915

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,493

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksei

If your home has a mortgage you can't really get enough money out of roomers to be expense-free.

If it doesn't, you can.

This is so generalized and false that it's not even funny.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 07:52 PM

#7916

GrindPokerAllDay

banned

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,326

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksei

If your home has a mortgage you can't really get enough money out of roomers to be expense-free.

Yes you can. I've done this with multiple houses purchased prior to the crash in 2008. First and 2nd liens on each property (6% first lien, 8.5% APR 2nd). You can get much higher rents in general by renting by the room than if you rented the entire house out to a family. Plus I worked for a student housing developer that did the same thing (ie built houses, rented by room, obv didn't just pay cash). They were making sick rents.

Quote

09-14-2014 , 10:13 PM

#7917

Aleksei

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,116

mm, good to know.

Quote

09-15-2014 , 10:19 AM

#7918

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Lol home ownership

Quote

09-15-2014 , 11:15 AM

#7919

eldiesel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,585

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11t

Also look at a high interest savings account at a brick and mortar credit union. You'll likely not be able to withdraw from an ATM but you might get decent interest rates

I don't think you'll find a "high interest savings account" because it's not 1995 anymore. Unless you count 1% as "high."

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09-15-2014 , 11:48 AM

#7920

HH2010

adept

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 925

Lending Club is a good option for low-risk yield imo

Bond funds are good too but will be subject to rise in interest rates

Quote

09-15-2014 , 12:32 PM

#7921

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by HH2010

Lending Club is a good option for low-risk yield imo

Bond funds are good too but will be subject to rise in interest rates

Lending Club isn't low risk. It's the equivalent of buying a fund of junk bonds and gets extremely complicated for tax filing. I did it once and earned 12% over two years, but won't be doing it again.

Quote

09-15-2014 , 12:44 PM

#7922

HH2010

adept

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 925

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

12% annualized, or 12% gross? Assume the latter but just checking.

Why won't you do it again?

I just got into it and I like that it is decoupled from market volatility and offers the chance to allocate widely among a mix of risk profiles (the "A" through "E" credit ratings). I don't think it's fair to say that the "A" or "B" rated borrowers are equal to junk bonds at all.

I have heard that it is a pain for taxes... haven't quite got there yet.

Quote

09-15-2014 , 12:51 PM

#7923

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

If your winrate is really good take like $5-10/hr of your winnings and use it to invest

Quote

09-15-2014 , 12:58 PM

#7924

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,951

Quote:

Originally Posted by HH2010

I made about 12% annualized, wouldn't bother for 5-6% a year. The interest rates paid to investors have also come down a lot compared to when I started. It's just too much if a pain in the ass to deal with for taxes. Every transaction has to be tracked, and you have to report gains on any single loan for which interest was paid no matter how small the profit was. A decent LC portfolio could have hundreds of loans. Mine had about 40 loans. I would rather just buy a bond fund which returns similar interest rates and doesn't have the same tax filing problems.

Quote

09-15-2014 , 01:39 PM

#7925

HH2010

adept

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 925

FWIW, 12% annualized is an incredible result... Average long-term return for equities is ~7% which are inherently much riskier than bonds. Even junk bonds price at ~9-10% in this market.

If 12% annualized is what you are targeting through Lending Club, then the comparison to junk bonds is accurate on a risk-adjusted basis.

Can't speak to the tax filing issue yet, although I recall something about how Lending Club has implemented some reporting system that makes it easy to track the individual loans.

I am very new to LC, so still figuring it out myself.

Quote

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