In deepish 1/2 games I definitely think $28/hr is possible. It's a stellar winrate obv, but in deep games against weak player pools, a talented player can do it. I haven't played 1/2 in a while, but my winrate 1/2 is about that over 400 hour (still small sample obv) at a certain pokerroom

This is very true, especially if you tend to start playing in the morning hours as games get started. My practice is to put in a request to move "to the new game" or another existing game as soon as possible....that is after they fill the game being seated on. I find that the floor is pretty responsive to this and also appreciates the fact that you are considering the needs of all games when asking.

Most of the time, if you are a regular in any cardroom, you can deduce the quality of the table with a quick glance. Familiar faces, stack sizes, any action occurring at the moment, and other available games can only take a moment to conclude that you want to move.

This, barring some very unusual circumstances.

How was this not the first response?

I am just going to interject that dealers are know it alls about everything but they tend to know very little about anything especially poker (ie. winrates, who is good, who is bad, how to play etc).

14bbs/hr is achievable at higher levels by the best of the best (no tilt...ever). I think it might be impossible to do so at 1/2 in the casino I play simply because of the rake which is relatively higher the smaller you play ($5 +$1 drop) and too often the games are shallow (min buyin is $100, 50bbs) and villains are too often nursing a 20bb or 30bb stack. Not to mention that 1/2 games tend to be limpy limpy which results in less hands per hour.

A $1/2 game with $300 max BI and $4-5 rake should be beatable for 15bb/hour by a good player. I know at least a handful of friends winning more than that.

The problem with beating $1/2 for $30/hr is that you are playing too low.

Probably, but the $2/5 game at my local casino is usually horrible with 3-4 solid LAGs that play for a living, 3-4 super nits, and the occasional fish. In the $1/2 game everyone sucks, so it's like going to the ATM with no variance. Life expenses also make $2/5 downswings suck a lot more.

I very much doubt that you are running into 3-4 solid winning lags at one table at 2-5. Where in the country do you play.

What makes even less sense is that his local is Red Rock in Vegas.

Yes there are 3-4 very solid players that are in the 2/5 game there almost every day. Mostly play at red rock. Anyone who plays there should know who they are. One has $1M+ tourney cashes, they're all rolled for and play 5/T, and are all very good at playing deep and putting you in tough spots. None of that happens at 1/2. There's actually at least 5 now that I think about it. The "icebox" from Matt Moores Another Kid Another Dream post has also been playing there regularly past few weeks. Heard she never folds and plays super aggro but I'm sure there's a method to her madness.

Sure makes a lot of sense that a well rolled 5/10 player is choosing to play 2/5 in Red Rock as his regular game.

I just counted 21 games running in Vegas that are 2/5 or higher, 1 in Red Rock.

If the guy is well rolled, obviously good, and that there are 3 other "tough LAG regs" there, why would he play there?

I don't know, ask them. They're all friends, maybe they like the challenge of taking each other's money. When you live right near the casino, driving 20 minutes to the strip and 20 minutes back seems less attractive. The RR 2/5 game is the worst in town 90% of the time.

If it's generally the largest game running at that casino it makes sense that it's not that good.

LMAO @ not driving 20 minutes to a casino. FML, I have to drive 1hr 20 minutes lol.

Wait your in vegas?? You have a million options, go to bellagio and crush 2-5

Its prolly worth the drive to go from making $20/hr to $50/hr imo

And i still really doubt the red rock $2-5 is as tough as you say it is. Just doesnt make any sense for crushers to all be playing together on the same table of $2-5 when they live in vegas of all places.

It would be a total waste of time if they really are pro

So far ive logged 500 hours of 2-3-5 100bbcap nl at $50/hr
Got another 400ish hours before that of 2-4 at $40/hr

Hoping to move into 2-3-5deepstack ($1k buyin) and/or 5-T permanently in the next few months.

On average i spent 3-4 months at each level, my journey starting in aug-sept last year. I skipped 1-2 and started straight at 2-4. In the beginning I had a difficult learning curve where i spewed off ~20buyins and nearly went busto but eventually improved my game.

Things are looking bright for 2014. Hope it keeps going well!

Do you mean go to any on-strip Vegas casino

Or specifically Bellagio you think has a soft 2/5 game?

I meant any strip game. I dont play in vegas normally so i cant say where is best

Just hit 100 hours of 1/2 in Feb/Mar, have only played LLSNL <20 hours lifetime before starting this grind. Winrate is at 7.5bb/hr and that includes being almost break-even (-$50) over my last 55 hours, so very preliminary results in determining hourly are promising.

I make a lot more than $20/hr playing 1/2 and I have a real job. By the time I'm done with my real job for the day, driving all the way to the strip and back, dealing with traffic and the long walks from parking garages to the poker room seems like a hassle when I can drive 5 minutes to Red Rock and park right next to the poker room and already have reads on every reg that plays there. Believe what you want, the RR 2/5 game is awful 90% of the time. When the game looks good I play and have about 150 hours in it since November at $59/hour, but it usually sucks. I just play for fun, not as my main source of income.

+1

More illogical stuffs coming out of you. I'll just point them out.

1. You don't want to drive extra 15 minutes to play a wide selection of 2/5 because you rather play the same 1/2 regs that you know.

You claimed that you won $59k in 1/2:
You know a handful of players crushing the same game:

Red Rock, a casino in Vegas off the strip, multiple big winners are crushing a small pool of 3 to 5 1/2 games with the same regulars day in and day out.

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2. You don't want to play 2/5 in Red Rock because there are 3-4 tough pros.

They're well-rolled for 5/T, one of them has 1mil+ in tourney cashes, and yet they choose to be regulars in a small casino playing 2/5 amongst each other, not to mention the sharks in 1/2 that are crushing the game for 15bb+/hr.

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3. You play for fun, and poker is not your main source of income.

You claimed that you won 59k last year:

And yet, your poker income on top of your main income is still not enough to cover both your life expenses and downswings in 2/5:

Correct.

Correct.


Correct.


Correct. Anyone who plays at RR regularly knows who the best players in the room are. There are a handful of big losing players that keep coming back day in and day out. My 1/2 winrate at RR is actually $6/hr more than other casinos, and RR takes a $4+1 rake instead of the $4 rake at the main strip casinos.



That's not what I said. I don't care if they are in the game as long as the game is good, but when it's them and 3-4 super nits, the game sucks, so why play? Throw a whale or two in the game and I'm in there.


Correct. I won't name names, but the $1M tourney guy can be found on hendonmob or other databases that track tourney cashes, it's not a secret. There is a 5/10 game at RR on Friday nights that plays pretty big and there's also a semi-private game organized by one of the regs with some pros and high rollers that usually goes at Suncoast once a week, usually 5/10/20 or 5/10 mandatory button straddle or some variation of that. They all play in those games, I don't have access to their bank accounts obviously but I have no doubt they are rolled for it. RR isn't a small casino, they usually have the same number of tables going as Aria.



Correct

You already said that.

I'm a life roll nit. Not that I have anything to prove to you, but I max out my retirement contributions, bought a house, spent a lot of money renovating it, bought an expensive car, bought expensive toys for said car, bought an expensive extended warranty for said car, and spend $20-40k/year on business expenses. All of those costs add up. It's not that I can't handle the downswings in 2/5, I would just rather not play in a crappy game against tough players or drive to the strip every day when I can drive 5 minutes away and crush the 1/2 game. I am rolled to play 5/10 but like I said, it's not my main source of income and I just play for fun. If I wasn't working a "real" job and was solely depending on poker for income, I would drive to the strip and play 2/5.

Why are you nitpicking him so hard?


1. His statement about the convenience of Red Rock for a recreational player at the end of a work day is 100% understandable.

2. People are creatures of habit. Not everybody is analyzing every situation and looking for the most +EV solution. ie. 2/5 pros not driving to the strip to play softer games.

3. His last statement about the 2/5 swings reads more like a general statement about the positives of 1/2 over 2/5 rather than a personal experience. Also, he clearly stated he is a rec player, I don't think he is claiming he has a 59k+ bankroll.