Wondering what the standard play is here pre-flop.

Previous hand (~1 hour before the featured hand): Hero has Q7 in the BB and checks his option and flops 2 pair; he check calls villain's bet on the flop; on the turn I check raise villain who puts me all in and I think about it for about 30 seconds because the board was very dry, but in the end I call. Villain just has a Q; he said "I knew you had 2 pair when you check-raised but I was trying to push you off of it."


Hero: Image should be fairly nitty, although I did win the big pot above. This villain should know that because as hero sat at the table, another player was leaving and our villain said "you are the tightest player I have ever seen" to this other player.

Villain: I would describe him is as loose passive. Plays a decent amount of hands and does a decent amount of limp-calling. Overall, haven't seen him do anything really out of line except the above example.



OTTH:
Hero (~$400) UTG: TT
Villain (~$200) BTN

Preflop: Hero raises to $15; folds around to the BTN who 3-bets to $30; SB/BB fold; hero calls

Flop (~$60): KQ7r
Hero checks; villain checks

Turn (~$60): Q
Hero checks; villain bets $50, hero folds




Appreciate thoughts on all streets, but more focused on pre-flop right now. My question is - is this a 4-bet or fold situation? Or is calling an ok option?

I mean sure V can be 3-betting a little lighter on the button, but in general, at least in my game, only certain people will 3-bet light and he is not one of them in my opinion.

In retrospect, calling just does not seem to be a great option. The more I think about it, it seems like I am going to be way ahead or way behind (unless AK or maybe AQ) and I should decide now what I think it is, before I call?
a) I think villain is 3-betting me lighter from the button and I can 4-bet
b) Villain is not 3-betting light; Fold because I am way behind his 3-bet range; I am almost set-mining by calling if I don't think he is 3-betting light


Thoughts?

I think you played it fine. Seems very standard to me. I would never fold nor raise to the 3bet. He's not light 3betting a tight utg raise so 4betting is out, and he is giving us 3:1 to call so folding is out. Just play your hand like the medium PP it is and try to hit a set.

The same thing happened to me two days ago, except I had JJ. I also had the effective stack, but that's mostly irrelevant.

I called.

I think it is entirely villain dependent; if he's a nit who will fold his AA when you flop a set, just let it go. I don't think I would ever 4-bet unless all the planets were aligned, like it was obvious this person is just here to gamble and might be 3-betting with any ace, etc.

Put the villain on a range. Look at the odds of their being a flop you like against that range. Look at the odds of hitting that flop and the villain hitting enough of it to continue. Then figure out whether it is worthwhile to call or 4 bet.

If that is too much work for you, then fold to the min 3bet when you are perceived as the tightest player in the room raising in the UTG.

Are we still ok with calling if villain 3-betted more? Let's say I opened to $15 and Villain 3-bets to $45-$60.

Should we be folding unless we think villain is getting out of line? Or is it just way too nitty to be folding TT preflop to a 3-bet?

You should fold if he makes it $30+ MORE than your preflop raise. He just isn't deep enough to setmine. As is, calling the extra $15 means you have to make about $180 more when you flop a set.

Just fold now that there are overcards and say 'Nice hand.'

PF: Well, V only has 66bb. If we are playing to set mine, then he doesn't have enough for us to win. Unless he is really bad, and we think we can outplay him OOP, I just fold. This guy has the capability to bluff, so we're likley going to be put in a tough spot playing this hand OOP.

F (64): SPR is ~2.5. Checking is fine.

T (64): Yeah, I'd fold too. But that's the problem here when calling this hand OOP.

Huh? Flopping a set is ~ 1:7, so we need ~ $105 total (implied from villain plus the existing pot), to justify the original $15, plus another ~ $120 for an extra $15.

I like to make at least 12:1 for a set.

First of all, we may not get paid if he has air.

Second of all, we may not win even if we do flop a set.

So, yeah, $105 makes it exactly even, but most good players want better odds.

Preflop really depends on stacks / opponents / table as to whether I'd lean towards a raise or a limp.

Thanks to the minraise, we're getting 13:1 implied odds. We're the tightest player at the table who just opened UTG, and this guy just 3bet us. Pretty decent chance he has a monster, and with an SPR of 3 it will almost be impossible for him to get away from his hand if we hit our set (except in cases like KK on a ATx flop). So I also call the raise and I'm calling simply to setmine.

I didn't hit my set on the flop, so I'm pretty much done with it. Him checking behind doesn't really change that as he could have easily flopped KK/QQ or even have scared AA/JJ/AK.

I also check/fold to the turn. We're beating a flat out bluff by like 99 or some random hand that decided to get very tricky preflop.

Ghandwasplayedperfectlyafterourinitialraise,imoG

We're being asked to call $15 to win $200 + $15, so getting implied odds of 14.3:1. Typically, this ain't great odds to setmine where we're only going to flop a set 1 in 8 times (where he'll have to stack off more than 50% of the time for us to make money). But this guy has given every indication he's got a monster plus the pot will be so huge relative to stacks that it is unlikely that he'll be able to get away from that monster (minus the KK/QQ/JJ vs ATx). It's ok, imo.

OP, if he 3bet larger you'll have to figure out what your implied odds are. As soon as they start getting down to like 10:1 then he'd have to stack off like almost 100% of the time for it to be profitable to setmine, and even in this case we might have to factor in AK that whiffs and doesn't pay off postflop. It's definitely not too tight to fold TT (or even QQ/JJ) to a 3bet if we think we're often beat.

GcluelessNLnoobG

So when I called, I did have the impression I could stack him off if I flopped a set, barring a really wet flop (and yes I had the impression he was holding a monster, not 3-betting light).

Just not sure it's okay to set mine here or not. When I think of set-mining, I typically think of multi-way pots, so not sure if set mining is really profitable heads up unless we have an aggro villain and are pretty deep.

Good to know that 4-betting is pretty spew-y unless we think villain gets out of line too often. Just wasn't sure where to draw the line between the 4-bet/flat/fold with a hand like TT UTG/OOP. Because I understand we don't really wanna play postflop after getting 3-bet OOP with mid-pairs. At the same time 4-betting seemed like spew. Calling just seemed like set mining. Folding seemed just nitty. So wasn't sure.

Thanks all for the responses - very helpful as always.

Results: As played, I folded rather quickly on the turn and he said nice fold and he had KK for a flopped set/turned boat. So yeah... haha.

I'm guessing purely setmining HU OOP to the aggressor isn't profitable, unless the aggressor (a) has a tight raising range and (b) is unlikely to be able to fold postflop for stacks that we need to be profitable. Both those conditions are met in this particular case.

Even setmining against an aggro villain HU OOP is unlikely to be profitable since they have a wide raising range and are thus unlikely to stack off postflop (cuz they so often don't have anything). Unless of course they are fond of barrelling 4 streets with air.

GimoG