2/3 100 dollar buy in game. I'm in sb with A8dd UTG+2 limps in. He is a weak tight passive. He doesn't bluff. If he calls or bets he has something...UTG+3 limps, New to the table middle aged guy no reads, but he has his sunglasses on and hat pulled low. So he might be a player. I complete and bb checks. BB is super tight, he has been hovering between 40 and 50 for an hour. I've only seen him play 3 hands.
Flop is 7c8c8s.
There is &7 in pot after rake
I lead for $7. BB folds UTG+2 calls $7 and UTG+3 re pops to $25.
I call and UTG+2 folds.
Pot is now $64. I have $100. Villain has $75
Turn 5d I check. He checks.
River KD I lead for $35. He tanks and looks like he wants to fold but finally throws in the $35 and show QQ.
On the flop i put him on any 8x, A7, 77, possibly 99-JJ but not too sure about that, and a myriad of flush and straight draws.
On the turn I felt I was ahead of his range and by checking I could induce him to bet on the blank turn and then I would shove.
I like my river bet. I think I got max value. When he checked the blank turn I thought he was on a busted draw or something like A7.
I could of easily got it all in on flop or turn though. I left $40 on the table. How would you of played it? I think I could of gotten it all in on the flop if I re popped or on turn if i lead 35 and shoved 40 on river...What's my optimal line here?

Weak tight passive who doesn't bluff....3bet the flop ffs!!!
These kinds guys flat 77 on the flop so try get it in. Don't need to flat cause he's not bluffing

Not a fan of how you played. Fold pre with 30bb. You should be playing the top of your range only.

Miniraise the nits

NoNoNo UTG+2 was weak passive. Villain i didn't have a read on..and I was in the small blind..$1 to call..

to steal is ok no implied odds to speculate. Weak tigjts don't 3bet fold so shoveflop

Are you trolling me?

wut?

Somehow my post got cut in half.

Mis-read who raised. Even so they're not folding although there are lots of action killers that come on the turn.

OP read the sticky on forum improvement. This one should be locked up in 3,2,1...

Since it's a 2/3 structure, I would also complete preflop.

I also donk the flop, however I simply throw in 2 red chips to make it an even $10; we can overbet the pot on the flop and no one will care, so let's go for that extra value and build the pot.

Villain only has $75 after the raise. Tighty behind us probably ain't coming along for the raise anyways unless he has something (like an 8 or our bad luck situation of 87/77). We're only playing with effective stacks of 33 BBs so hands should be getting done and over with quickly. I shove the flop before scare cards (which there are a zillion of on this board) kill the action. Board is drawy so villain can easily put us on a draw.

If I did happen to just call the flop (which I don't), I would donk the turn cuz it checking thru sucks (more chance of scare cards, etc.). Honestly, pot/stacks are difficult, but again, I think I would just shove here too.

On the river with the effective nuts I think the correct play in a vacuum is to shove. So I'd shove again.

We left $40 on the table, and the majority of the time that money is being called off early on, so we probably left on average about $30-$35 of profit on the table which will take a few hours to make up. In general, in a shortstack game with a scary drawy board, we should do everything we can to end the hand on the flop or at the very latest the turn, IMO.

ETA: For example, here's a list of scare cards for QQ: A, K, a club, a 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10. Here's a list of safe cards: the 2 of strawberries (i.e. there are hardly any).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Thank you. I agree with your assessment completely. Flatting the flop is where I made my mistake I see now.

About to leave for the casino. Will do when I get back. Could you be more specific on why?

you can shove flop, there is a flush draw out there and good chance Hero will talk himself into calling if he either A) has the flush draw or B) thinks you are on the flush draw and he has an overpair. Flatting the flop raise isn't terrible, but if you flat then you HAVE TO LEAD OUT ON TURN.

Whenever someone raises you on the flop and the board is wet (ie FD or SD) and you have a hand that has a lot of value, then you should lead out on turn. A lot of players use an IP flop raise as a cheap way to see two cards as they will count on you to check turn into them and then they can either bet or check back. So you want to deny them pot control by betting into them on turn...

Oh, and just bet $10, don't bet $7. No one really cares about how the first bet relates to the pot for that amount. Truthfully, bets at this level are more about chip stacks and less about pot.

I've bet $35 into $10 pots all the time and get snapped called by V's who just don't care what the pot size is. Not saying you should do that here... just sayin

Thank you dgiharris. I feel your analysis is spot on. I realize where I missed up now. It was my first time playing in two months, though. So, I feel I was a lil rusty. Heading to the casino now though to grind. Will post any interesting spots I get into today and hopefully you guys can give me some advice.

Please lead the turn.

Part of the reason I didn't bet the turn is because I seen him reaching for chips with his left hand. I instantly checked thinking he would bet for me. He then grabbed a handful of his chips and picked them up with his left hand and checked with his right lol. Guess you can't always trust that lol. But yeah I misplayed the hand, no doubt.
Thanks for the advice man. I made 590 tonight. No real good hands to post just ran hot (flopped a set and got paid off by two people) and played abc and took ppl to value town. But, you're right bet size relative to the pot size doesn't matter in these games. I took your advice and overbet pots with only 1 or 2 limpers. Worked like a charm. limped sb with AJ with 2 limpers. $7 in pot after rake. flop is AQJ two diamonds. I lead 10 I limper who is a calling station calls. Turn is Kc I bet 25 he calls. river is blank like 5 or something. I bet 25 again and he insta mucks lol. Small pot but good example of how I was able to get more money out of fish on the turn and rivers tonight by betting bigger on flop and bloating the pot.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I will be back tomorrow and will post results Good poker right now at Commerce because of LAPC tourneys

I call this move "The Freeze Out"

Whenever the board gets scary and a veteran player OBVIOUSLY reaches for chips In Position prior to your action so you can see that he reached for a lot of chips, he is trying to freeze you out so you check so he can check back.

Whenever I see someone do this I will almost always automatically bet into them even if I have complete air.

As your putting chips out there a lot of times they will make a big show of grabbing even more chips to try to slow you down. Once you are done, they will make a motion and then try to get a read off you but in reality, they are never raising, most of the time they just fold.

Now, on rare occassion, you will get an older veteran who will actually snap call you with those chips. Again, even then he is just trying to freeze you out on river meaning he usually has a hand with value but fears the nuts. So in the case that he does call you, and you are monster, go ahead and get a good value bet on river...

but anyways, the older and more crusty the aggro veteran, the more likely that move is to freeze you out...

next time it happens, don't fall for it, go ahead and bet.

Wow awesome advice man. I have noticed this...I have seen one guy do this when he had a monster but I think he was a beginner and an exception to the rule..So most of the time when they make a motion for grabbing chips like they are going to call or raise it means they have a hand with value but not a nut type hand. And I should fire out there 100 percent of the time with my made hands. I don't know why I never utilized this I have noticed it but never put it together. Thanks a lot man. I love your advice.
I just started a journal please follow:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17.../#post31028932

Do you promote betting with complete air to someone doing the freeze out though? It seems they only do it with hands with some value but not nut type hands. In the games I play everyone is calling stations. But, I play in a very shallow game so it's harder to make moves..

Just posted the hand I went busto on tonight 150 bbs deep in my journal. If anybody wants to check it out and offer advice it would be appreciated.
Edit: Link to journal is above

Either shove over villain on flop or shove turn. That was almost minimum value for the first two streets the way you played it.