Stakes $1/$2. Buy-in $80-$200. Effective stacks $300 Hero covers villain.

Hero A J

2 limpers, i make it 10 in MP, BU calls, blinds fold, 2 limpers call.

flop: ($40)
4 5 8

i c-bet $25, villain on Button calls, other two fold.

turn: ($90)

A


so villian has 265 left in his stack.

What do you do?

Bet 1/2-2/3 pot for value.

With no reads I typically bet here, mainly because I would also be betting with 22 or T9s so I feel like I should balance my bluffing range with value bets when I actually have it. If the villain is aggressive and he'd bet more hands than he'll call with, I'd prefer a check.

$60-$75/call a shove.

Normally check to induce action/get value on river. Betting folds out the hands we beat, and if we're behind, getting raised with the nut draw would suck. If he checks behind bet most rivers for value, c/call others.

WHAT????

We have Top Pair Good Kicker + Nut Flush draw. We are a MONSTER equity wise and we want to inflate the pot as much as possible.

There is a chance villain is likewise on a flush draw and we don't get any money on the river unless the flush hits.

THere is a chance villain has Ax and will raise us

There is a chance villain puts us on a flush draw and calls us down...

We want to valuetown this turn, we WANT villain to call or raise us here.

Basically, when you are ahead and have enormous equity you WANT to inflate the pot and get as much money in as possible. Especially on a wet board where you have a decent hand plus a nut draw.

Bet 1/2-2/3 pot for max value and fist pump call if villain shoves OTT on turn.

I think this is a bit over the top. This is the turn, not the flop, so the idea that we have "enormous equity" isn't right. If we're behind, we have like 9-12 outs, giving us something like 20-25% equity. I'm definitely not "fist pump happy" if villain pushes all-in over us here.

Meh, I disagree and I'm obviously in the minority here but thats ok.

Most villains will throw away their middling pp to a bet here, but may bet if checked to, or call a river bet after we checked the Ace.

I highly discount the chance of getting raised by Ax here.

Since we raised preflop, our chances in villains eyes of having a flush draw are reduced.

If we bet and are raised close to pot or even 1/2 pot, how do you feel about your hand now? You really fist pumping happy? I'm a little sick myself cause villain has a made hand that crushes me and I'm not getting odds to draw,

Betting turn is good obv. if villain has spades as well, but how often does he?

Since OP has given us no description of villain I can say that I'm definitely not fist-pump calling the shove OTT but I will call in a vacuum vs a random 1/2 player knowing that a good % of the time we're getting our money in bad. If villain shoves OTT with Ax+ then we are ahead of his range, if he only does it with 2p+ then we are behind.

We bet 60 OTT, the pot is 150, he shoves for another 200, the pot is 415, we have to call 200 into a 415 pot with terrible odds for our flush and most of the time drawing to 14 outs or less. Versus a competent or even semi-competent 1/2 player I fold OTT to a shove easily. I think you spoke too fast lol.

But yes OP, bet for value here ldo

Meh,

okay, I may be a little over zealous on the fist pump call if we are shoved on on this turn.

But in this spot (wet board) a lot of weaker hands will call despite the Ace scare card because when the board is wet, lots of villains will put you on a flush draw provided you don't get too crazy with the betting.

In fact, at this level, lots of players OVERBET made hands because they are trying to push out the flush draw. That is more standard (though incorrect). So, I think a 1/2-2/3 pot bet will get more calls than folds by weaker hands.

Villain is on the BTN and I could see BTN floating with wide range of overs or pair + gutshot combos.

Lastly, lets forget about the flush draw for a moment. If we just had AJo, wouldn't we bet in this spot? So balance a bit, and bet. And if we are concerned about pushing out weaker hands, then bet 1/2 pot.

I can definitely see a lot of hands calling 1/2pot since that bet is semi-weak is it not? Like a blocking bet trying to see a flush river.

And now that I think about it, I wouldn't be thrilled with a OTT raise, but at the same time, i'm not sticking my finger down my throat in disgust. I'd feel comfortable calling a OTT shove here. Otherwise, should we never bet OOP in fear of an OTT shove? That sorta thinking will turn us into a weak-tight nit.

EDIT: Opps, seems we are a little deeper than I thought. okay, OTT shove would be a sick spot . But I don't think I would let that fear stop me from betting this turn. Lastly, in a vacuum (no reads), I would call OTT shove here. But I wouldn't fault someone for folding. Its just been my experience that many times at this level you swear a player would have to have 'blank' hand in order to shove and in reality it is oftentimes a worse hand then you thought.

I am confused. Why do we want to check the turn on a card that villain will know hits our range (and therefore will take a free card in most spots) and give him a chance to potentially hit his 2 to 8 outer (set or str8 no spade) to beat us? Bet here until villain raiuses us and then decide. Don't not bet because we are a fraid we might get raised and won't know what to do.

I mean obviously we're betting the turn here or value but I still think it's a debatable call OTT versus a shove. I mean we just hit the ace from space to go along with our nut flush of course we're betting.

As for not betting because we're scared of a shove, that's just playing weak-tight scared ass nitty poker like harris said. By that logic we should never bet w/o the nuts because villains could raise us

I can agree. Calling an OTT shove on turn is debatable.

In that event, we would need more info on villain and also how villain perceives us.

O.K., give me a range for villain that calls a raise preflop, the flop bet on that board and a turn bet by us that we can extract value from.
Also, I'm not worried about the free card here.

I want to check the turn for value here cause I don't think were getting called enough if we bet + I don't want to be raised off my draw. Villain may look me up more on river when he wouldn't call turn.

34, 56, 78, 89, 810 connectors would be the ones I'd guess. This is 1-2 live and the guy has the button.

We need reads OP. Why discuss hands in a vacuum when we never play them in a vacuum?

Readless, raise more pre, bet more on the flop and bet this turn. Pretty worthless though since there are about a zillion reasons to justify other lines.

Reads:
villian is a 40 year old man not in a big jacket, looks to be of what could be russian descent, doesnt look like a professional type. Havnt seen him show down a handk just limp calling/folding etc.
villian probably sees hero as a successful poker playing kid (im sitting on a 1500 stack at 1/2) hasnt seen me go to showdown since he came to the table a 2 orbits ago. So no history.
as said, the thing about this hand is pretty much i cant do much wrong can i? No matter what line i take (except open shipping) which still isnt as bad as it seems.

I would bet small enough that i think i'm getting called by an ace with no kicker, or middle pair. If the opponent looked like the 'gambler type', then raise high enough to induce a shove from a draw.

Preflop I'd typically have to raise more at my table in order to cut down the field to a reasonable size, and it looks like the same could be said here. I think I'd raise closer to $15 preflop.

We've flopped a nice flush draw with overs on a board that has most likely missed everyone or made it scary for them to continue. I like the 1/2 - 2/3 potish c-bet to try and take it down now while at the same time offering ourselves decent odds.

I just check/call the turn. Villain called this flop with 2 still behind him. I'd hate to get raised off this hand with a draw to the nuts and with this many chips behind. By betting, methinks most worse hands will fold (our AK just got there). The drawing hands (gutshots, flushes, sets) are drawing slim to none, there's no real danger of giving a free card. Plus we give villain a chance to bluff at us, or even pay off a river bet due to our turn show of weakness.

GcluelessNLnoobG

+1 to this basically, imo

shouldnt be worried about balance too much, but im betting the turn with AJ as well as other flush combos, like qj or kj etc etc...

i'd bet 65$

if we get raised i dont think we can fold, but im not too happy about calling