Mohegan 1/2 last night

Table has sort of changed gears after a deep, drunk whale just left, now playing tighter and more passively.

Hero, white male, 20s, has been tight and has only shown down top set in about 1.5 hrs of play. I'd been aggressive in position but just relatively card dead/spot dead. $550

V1 is white male, 50s-60s, limping quite a bit but and playing passively in general. He hasn't made any real obvious mistakes postflop and just had a vibe that he was comfortable and knew what he was trying to do. $300

Pre: folds to hero in co, who raises to $7 with QJss. Btn calls, villain in bb calls.

This is not my normal pfr size, but as a lp open I think it's fine. I'm likely to be ip when called and probably ahead of btn's and blind's calling ranges.

Flop: $22, 3 way

Qd 6c 5h

Villain checks
Hero bets $15
Btn folds
Villain calls

Turn: $52 headsup

7h

Villain checks
Hero bets $30
Villain calls

Thoughts on sizing?

River: $112
3s

Villain checks
Hero bets $30
Villain raises to $85
Hero is confused...

So basically I'm thinking this is only bluffs and 98, leaning towards bluffs. I barely ever gets here with a 4 besides 44 maybe, but I think even that folds the flop quite a bit given villain. I wouldn't be surprised if he took advantage of my weak river sizing on this runout to turn a middle pair into a bluff, however I have no specific reads to back this up, just a gut feeling. I'd like to be able to analyze it more, but I'm mystified...I felt like I was back on pokerstars with the river c/r, you rarely see it live. Thoughts on river mainly? Do you guys click it back or bet bigger?

Fwiw, I was in the middle of getting a coffee and tipping the waitress during the river action, so I'm ready to acknowledge it was sub-optimal as I was a bit distracted. But I was definitely not expecting a raise there, thought he was pretty much all weak Q's and pair+sd's.

Your hand isn't good enough to go for three streets of value against this guy. This is one of those times to use pot control; I'd check turn, call river lead or bet river if checked to. If I bet turn, I'd check back river. If I bet river, I'd fold to an 60 year old guys check raise. The reason is simply hand values, you are not strong enough vs. his range.

Just curious, what would you give him for a range after he checks the turn? And that was also my first thought on the river, that an older guys river c/r beats me almost always. It's just such a weird line to take with pretty much any value hand he has, I mean there's no reason or history that would say I'm going to bet this river with a Q with 4 to a straight on board. That was my thinking at least, I'm probably leveling myself.

To add: villains sizing on the x/r isn't exactly inviting a Q to call...and I'd say at this point I'm pretty much face up as Q with a decent kicker...

I hate this line.

Bet more pre

Bet 1/2- 2/3 pot on the flop.if called I check the turn and reevaluate depending on river action. If he bets the river depending on size of bet and my reads I either call or fold.

On that board so many limped hands hit two pair, set, straight. after all he limp called $7

He didn't limp call, he was bb. But yeah, river bet is pretty thin.

Thoughts on sizing: with ES at $300, you might as well pot flop, pot turn to shrink PSR and not give V a chance to bluff-raise river (ie. he'll have to commit to a shove as pot will be $198 with $205 left in stack).

AP, it's not exactly a snap call but I'm not losing sleep, either; V really looks like a busted draw (87o) that paired OTT and is ineffectively trying to turn his hand into a bluff -- more likely, considering your betsizing OTR looks like a blocker.

He basically never raises river for value, imho.

I think I fold here. Against a younger/more aggressive opponent it might be a call, but I rarely see river c/r bluffs at 1/2.

That said, I really don't like betting all three streets here against this villain. After betting the turn, you should check back on the river imo

Ok not that I'm disagreeing with anything here, but is anybody gonna try to put villain on a range here? I mean I'm having trouble thinking of value hands he plays like this besides maybe 44, 54 or 64...and those are a stretch mostly IMO.

You should be betting far more preflop. Even betting smaller from CO/BTN, and even at a more passive table, it should be AT LEAST 10.

as played, well played until the river. Check back the river. As you didnt do that, fold river.

I understand why this hand is a little confusing. Your description of Villain suggests a c/raise bluff on the river is unlikely. The problem is with the range of hands that are better than yours: it's very narrow. So, here goes: 55, 66, 77, Q3s, Q7 (maybe), 67 (maybe).

Yep, this usually means that you should call, because you're getting 4:1. But, what do you beat? 78, 34, Q8-10, 88, 99, 1010, JJ. The question is whether Villain is capable of turning many of these 'showdown' hands into a bluff.

Have you mischaracterised Villain by any chance?

See I'd be shocked if villain ever shows up with a set here, it doesn't make any sense...although that hardly means it's impossible. I put him on 88-JJ, all kinds of pair+sd's, and some made straights. My intention was to bet river accordingly with the idea he'd never raise basically anything lol.

Edit: you bring up a good point drtjo...he'll, the fact that villain is doing this with anything means I probably mischaracterized him to some extent.

Look, some older- passives play sets this way. They believe you're always betting, so they're waiting until the river, in case they "scare" you away by raising. But really, isn't a made straight much the same as a set, in this regard? And would an old-passive really call you on the flop or turn with a gutter? If you still believe Villain is 'competent', as suggested by your initial description of him, then I still believe this is call.

As an aside, what do you believe Villain would have done if you raised a standard amount on the river (i.e. $65-90). If you believe it's unlikely that Villain would check-raise this standard size bet, then it's a call. If you believe it's likely that he would, then it's probably a fold.

Why doesn't a set make any sense? Passive old men check/call to the river with sets and then make a small raise on the river to spring their trap on the young guns. When he c/r the river here, I think the worst hand he shows up with is 76.

As drtjo said, it comes down to whether you think he's capable of turning his weaker value hands into a c/r bluff on the river? I'm gonna say prob not at these stakes.

Id be interested in results here if its not too early

i check back river. fold as played..

I think trying to put the Villain on a range is pretty difficult because your preflop raising size was so small. Just accept that he's not going to raise you with worse after you triple barrel and just fold. Doesn't matter what hand he backed into, he's ahead. I don't mind betting 3 streets with this. I would especially hate checking the turn unlike what most people are advocating. Make him pay for his draw. Bet the turn when you are ahead.