Pot goes to 17k+ pending V1's action. What do you do on a brick river? What do you do if the board pairs? What do you do if either flush gets there? What do you do if a gutterball completes?

If he is likely to bet river with worse hands then I induce and hope river bricks him, but really if he is drawing might as well get it in there since calling will allow him to pretty much play you perfectly. I just can't justify folding even though I will be perfectly happy if I am never in this spot. Great example of how small pp's lose value the deeper you are. The more I think about this hand the more I hate it lol. His sizing just makes this hand so difficult and that is part of the reason why I find it hard to fold. I don't really think there is any river card I am folding to. Btw, if you can assume that he could have aa/kk here, can you not assume he could have ak here and make this a vbet?

I really want to call here if not shove. Is it possible that villain could do this with some hand that picked up a combo draw on the turn (like 54 or 43? If those are in his range, then I think I shove. Man so gross though...all of this makes me think that I should get up from the table itf I have run a stack of 200 bb's to over 600 bb's.

His river lead smells so much like a defensive bet made with some sort of marginal holding that wants to get to show-down that I just don't see how you can avoid to put in a raise, just as you did. OK, so he shoved, he either had it or he didn't, he's a good player, so what, you folded, maybe you got outplayed, probably you didn't.

I don't think you butchered it or that it's a boring hand at all--I gained alot by reading the posts about it. Apart from agreeing with your pf oops, I think you played it absolutely fine, and I really doubt you made a mistake by folding.

Would be fun to know what he had. Oh well. . .

this hand is a total mind****. it makes no sense in practice
that V2 could get to the turn w/ AA or KK on that board (flop would be even weirder than pre), unless the fact that he is rich as **** means he doesn't sweat getting drawn out on and would take more pride in setting a monster trap. the thing is, that same rich as **** factor could be the engine behind him making a brute force raise on the turn designed to make you both sick. just reading the hand made me a little queasy.

Coming up w/ a range for him makes all those described river scenarios really tricky, b/c for the weird times he might have AA/KK, he could have some big combo draws or Aces up hands so **** if i know what river is a good one for you. Seems like a ship is in order more than fold or call on the turn given history, unless V2 is capable of semi-bluffing this spot and shipping rivers that blank for him but would fold to a turn shove (is this even possible?).

Fun deep hand! Given the player descriptions and the game flow, I have no plans to ever fold a set of sixes here. As you previously stated, "we don't have to be right every time and that's why they have chip runners"!

As played, IMO only player with a fd is you (and you actually don't have one). You never have an A because any A you'd play you'd almost certainly raise out of BB.

V1 is LAG but seems to be playing this hand straight-forwardly-almost certainly seems to be pot-controlling/bluff-inducing with some sort of A. All facts suggest to me that he is about to go away.

V2 almost never shows up with AA, KK, or AK, IMO. He is obv very hard to put on a range, but it seems skewed towards either: 1) nothing; using deep stack to get rid of everybody (even though his line is repping very narrow value--he is good enough to know that you know that he rarely has an absolute monster) and to then have the pleasure of showing you an "airball" when you fold or, 2) value hands like 22, Ax of hearts (or maybe A6, less likely because of flop action) that are ok with taking it down right now because they don't want to see a spade come in on river (but maybe have outs to a heart, if called).

I shove on turn. V1 is not calling, I don't believe. If V2 is bluffing he folds to a shove on the turn, but we don't lose anything because he's never putting anymore $ into pot on river. But, if V2 happens to have a reasonably high value hand (like a set of 2s), and a spade hits river, he will absolutely freeze and we miss out on rest of his stack. Similarly, you freeze up if a heart hits.

I have a sick feeling that V2 has a set of 2s, you get it all in on turn and he hits case 2 on river

I don't see how you could ever get away from this. You should be well ahead, and you don't want to see a river that will kill the action; also i don't think you want them to play back at you no matter what river hits. Could you check a river where you fill up? Tons of gutters and 2 flushes can complete as well. What's your plan then? There aren't that many total blanks that don't touch their range. Shove imo.

Although his range is wide, V2 doesn't float after a c/r with 22 on a AK6 two-toned board imo. With that said, i could see him doing this with some sort of QJs, QTs, 34s, 45s, A6, A2 or Ah3h+.

Given V1 b/c/c action, his range seems polarized to AxQs, AJo, or AK. I'm not leaning towards AK because it seems he would've stacked off by now. I'm curious to how this played out

re: DGAF's hand

it seems i've seen this type of play a lot lately (granted at smaller stakes) when the villian holds a marginal made hand and picked up a draw on the turn, a la AT type hand.

V2 obv gives no credit for hero's c/r or turn bet based on history and image considerations. i think it is extremely rare that either villian can beat 666 on the turn. i don't love shipping in a million BBs with bottom set in general, but we should be forcing V2 to react to our shove here instead of c/c'ing it off on the river.

if V2 is slow playing, AK is the "nuts" in his mind and he is probably never folding after he puts in $7k ott.

hope hero wasn't cold decked here.....

BUMP.

DGAF: results? This hand was a pretty crazy one. Is the villain capable of flatting AA or KK preflop this deep?

Great hand. Thanks for posting it.

Results from my hand:

I ship. V1 looks at his cards like "wtf" and folds pretty quickly. V2 tanks for a bit and then calls. I ask him if he wants to run it twice and he says no, he only runs it twice with people who have more money than him like Katzenburg lol.

River is a brick, I turn over my hand and he turns over...KK!

OUCH! At least you got half of it back on the next hand. Thanks for posting the hand.

damn. you think there was anythimg v2 could have done differently on flop or turn that would have made you not want to stack off here? (besides a PF 3bet say)

speaking speifically to the turn raise, it's such a huge amount did you ever think it was at face value? if he sized it differently was that altering how you may have read his hand?

Vs like 99.9% of the east coast player pool this is a pretty routine fold. Vs John this is super gross. I can't believe I am saying this, but I may just flat the river vs john since I really don't think he's calling your raise with a 7, unless he thinks you're capable of bluffing him in a spot where you are repping super narrow, which I doubt is the case.

I just dont understand how anyone with nut hands dont c/r turn than c/call.


That said i'm not so sure it's a call anymore but I just think folding is really exploitable if you tank hard. If he's any good he completely figures out what level you're on in terms of handreading & whether or not you consider perceived ranges etc etc etc.

This is solid thought imo and applies to about 4 other threads currently on the 1st page that are basically "i have 4th nuts and im 400+BBs deep, villain shoves, hero ?"

I dont know if it necessarily "solve's" hero's play permanently as to what level thought he's on/hand reading abilities, but it certainly turns Hero's hand face up and allows villain to more confidently run this play again in the future with less than the nuts.

If John the lawyer had QQ do you think he should be a little concerned about what hand hero can have that can call this deep? Hero may or may not call with 57 or J7, but is for sure calling with 77. John knowing that hero can't have quads changes everything.

I'm not sure. Everyone in that (vegas) poker circle was like "omg, I knew that spewtard who always sits deep would lose a huge pot eventually," but I took that as pretty much standard hate/inability to see what is really going on... I never regretted my play in that hand (I have regretted my play in plenty of big pots- like losing a 20kish pot against my friend just goofing around for a few minutes playing 5-10 and having drinks while waiting for other friends to show up to go bowling ). Having said that, I have folded a decent amount of sets in my life, and I'm not afraid to pot control with one either if I'm super deep and it's more than possible I've been coolered. So... maybe?

The reason I posted the hand is to add to the sample of really weird, deep hands. Imve, people pretty much just always show up with the goods when the serious money goes in, despite their image, history with hero, "capability", and most importantly- line. I really think mmix85 was coolered as well, he's just isn't a station like me (except when he's against me ).

Completely understand - The reason i was asking is because of how you presented it - i feel like i'd be so likely to make the same call given history w/ villain/description/hand etc - even though i knew going in it would be an example of nut over nut hands. really glad a bunch of these examples are being posted though for sure.

and at least tell us how you won back the 20K+ on some bowling side bets, right?

Actually I think I did win back 1k or something bowling that night, and I might have even had him on the ropes for more... Despite never losing a hand of poker in his life, he's actually a pretty big fish on the lanes.