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Value Owning myself on river... Value Owning myself on river...

03-20-2014 , 07:58 PM
1-2 nl, im in position with 7-9c, i make it $12 pre with $250 and am called by both blinds, SB is somewhat nitty but has trouble folding a pair, BB is semi agro and has shown up with a bluff a few times...they both have about $200 behind

flop comes 6d-8-d-Kh ...they both check, i make it $18 and they both call.

turn comes 10d completing my str, they both check, i dont love the diamond but i bet $20, they both call...

river is a black jack, they both check once again...at this point im conflicted, im assessing the pot and one side of me is saying that with the pot size and the size i would consider betting thin value, it may be too marginal of a spot for the risk of them raising, however the little voice in my head says "how do i not bet thin value here with the somewhat hidden str after the check called twice? i think i get called by a ton of lesser hands" ...i go with the later AND make the mistake of doing so without a plan of what to do after...i make it $25...SB crying calls, BB makes it $75 ...DoH GD!

well im pretty confused in this spot because BB has been here about an hour and has yet to check raise and rarely if ever even check called...hes always taken lead when he thinks hes ahead and when hes building a bluff...im thinking maybe i should have gone with instinct and checked behind with major showdown value and a good pot, however im trying to play optimally and felt like not value betting this hand after showing a semi weak betting line on turn and haveing been checked into twice by these particular Vs would be leaving $ on table. i also dont think i can find fold here when apart from the more unlikely bluff, BB can show up with K10 KJ any set...i dont think he ever has Q9 here...so comments on play/line/value bet decision and what to do now?
Value Owning myself on river... Quote
03-20-2014 , 07:58 PM
also i think i should have made turn like 35-40
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03-20-2014 , 08:11 PM
I don't like checking back the river because honestly both villains can show up with a range of 1 pair and 2 pair hands especially on a board like 68KTJ. Even with the third nut straight I am comfortable going for some thin value here, and it should be a fairly simple bet/fold.

So as far as the value line goes, I like it. Decision? Simple fold. I think that there is a very small probability that BB is bluffing here because of how you've capped your range with the small turn and river bets, but highly unlikely.
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03-20-2014 , 09:01 PM
bet more on turn, bet more on river, call raise since your sizing will induce spew
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03-20-2014 , 09:18 PM
Call! 50 bucks to win around $215 if i'm not mistaken? I think villain thinks you have AK or KQ, I feel like he think's he's raising for value. If someone just bet every street and I can beat a str8, I'm putting way more than 50 on top.

You said it your self, you have a disguised hand. I learned this lesson recently, the hard way... if you have a disguised hand, and you think the V COULD be bluffing...snap call. +1 because of the chance he could be bluffing. +1 because he has no clue how strong you are.
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03-20-2014 , 09:44 PM
Your bet sizing needs major help.
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03-20-2014 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
Your bet sizing needs major help.
This. Betting $20 into $85 on the turn is really bad.

Bet $55 next time. Fold if raised.
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03-20-2014 , 10:06 PM
ya, as i said my sizing was very atypical on this hand, i wanted to tug SB along with his TP type hands as well as give BB a chance to try and take lead on a bluff...that said i still think i should have gone 40 on turn, still wouldnt have changed a ton on river though...

so yeah i went for some value hoping to get called by SB (like he did) with something like TP or 2pair...BBs chk/rr was just so strange, i thought he had hit top 2 or J10 2 and legitimately though it was good. obviously i make the call expecting to see something like that the majority of the time...as it turned out BB had checked 3 streets with QJdiamonds...was sooo odd for him from what i had observed before
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03-20-2014 , 10:10 PM
Flop fine...55-60 turn...2/3 pot, fold to raise river.

Call this river bet, shows up with better hands a decent amount but not enough to warrant a fold getting 4-1
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03-20-2014 , 10:29 PM
assuming a 50 turn bet, are we still going for value on river? if so our sizing will essentially put either of the 2 Vs all in, or in the least any re raise they make will be insignificant...in other words if we go 50 on turn and they still call call, board scenario is the same, feels like we cant NOT go for value on this river...then were playing for their stack effectively...
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03-20-2014 , 11:02 PM
You're giving a flush draw correct odds to draw on the turn.

You simply cannot bet $20. It is wrong.
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03-20-2014 , 11:06 PM
i understand that, though its not a huge issue as i can instafold a diamond hitting...gonna reiterate though i regret not betting more on turn...now i was saying assuming we DO bet more on turn, do we still need to value bet this river given the action? if so the sizing would dictate a call should they check shove
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03-23-2014 , 12:12 AM
Against stickier opponents, I would still go for value on the river. But that would make it an even easier bet/fold, without having to level yourself re: bet sizing.
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03-23-2014 , 03:10 AM
as other people suggested, bet more on the flop and bet more on the turn
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