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Value betting with two black 10s Value betting with two black 10s

10-27-2013 , 10:26 AM
$1/2 Atlantic City. 10 player, passive to loose table, max buy-in $500. Hero loads up and on his very first hand hits a set of 7s vs JJ and is up $300, what a way to start. The next 3 orbits hero gives back $70 on missed flops and draws.

Hero tightens up and over the next few hours grinds it back up to $780.

Then this:

4 limpers (yeah it was that type of game) and hijack (around $250) seat pushes it up to $8. Hero finds two black 10s on the button and 3 bets to $20. All fold, hijack calls.

Pot: $49
Flop:
893 rainbow.

Hijack checks. Villain is one of the OK players at the table. Kind of loose but capable, although not someone I couldn't handle. His range includes pocket pairs and suited Aces. Hero bets $30. Hijack calls.

During the 5 hours I've played with this villain, he's never played QQ-AA like this pre and he usually folds if he misses flop. So his range is A9s, A8s, 22<1010. Hero thinks villain would bet if he had JJ, so that's out - knock on wood. So the only thing I have to worry about is a set. My line ok?

Pot: $105
Turn: 8. Flush draw now and the 8 could be trouble. Villain checks.

I really feel that I'm ahead here and the only hand I see him calling with is A9, 1010, and 22 -77. The villain is also capable of slow playing so this gets tricky. I check. I don't want to get too crazy with this hand. Good or bad?

Pot:$105
River: Q no flush.

Villain checks again. Now, I'm pretty certain the villain would bet trip 8s, or the boat. No way he has a Q, my best guest is 22, 44, 55, 66, A9 or 1010.

3 Questions:

How does my line look on each street?

What's the max value you think I could get if I put villain on A9?

Is there anyway I can get villain off 1010?

Last edited by PairPressure; 10-27-2013 at 10:38 AM.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 10:53 AM
If you're so confident of his range here, stove it and value bet.

I obviously wasn't at the table and have never played there, but his range has got to be wider than described.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 10:56 AM
JT and 76 are also in this range imo

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Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
JT and 76 are also in this range imo

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Yes, you're right. Should I have bet turn then?

Additionally; In the 5+ hours at the table, I haven't seen villain show down any winning hands with suited connectors yet, and villain is more likely to limp with 67 & J10 based on observation.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:26 AM
why did you 3bet pre
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:27 AM
Yeah bet bet bet imo... If he wants to get sticky with overs, he's gonna pay

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Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDeuce
If you're so confident of his range here, stove it and value bet.

I obviously wasn't at the table and have never played there, but his range has got to be wider than described.
I pretty much narrowed his range based on my observations.

I was pretty sure his PF range doesn't include calling 3 bets with 67...maybe J10s I guess. But $20? I highly doubt it. I saw a lot of limp folding to bets PF sort of thing from him. At least that's what I saw.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:31 AM
The 3bet sizing is so tiny that he's not folding anything he opened to 8 with (pot sweeteners)

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Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuqAta8
why did you 3bet pre
1010 on the button is pretty strong against a bunch of limpers and hijack's $8 bet. I also tend to try and isolate one player when I have this hand and hope to hit a set or have an over pair to the board.

Yeah 1010 will drive you nuts.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
The 3bet sizing is so tiny that he's not folding anything he opened to 8 with (pot sweeteners)

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I thought about this. My thinking was to isolate one player but you're right, there's already $20 in dead money so raising bigger would get a fold. How much though?
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairPressure
I thought about this. My thinking was to isolate one player but you're right, there's already $20 in dead money so raising bigger would get a fold. How much though?
3b sizing should be much bigger. Like 28-30 IMO.

Turn- As played I prob b/f turn and ch river.

River-As played I b/f here I think. A lot of 1 pr 9s in his range IMO
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 11:57 AM
b/f to target A9/K9. Maybe 40/45$?
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 12:12 PM
as played bet $50ish / fold raise

if you're gonna 3bet pre:
PSB would be $30 (well, $27, but don't ever bet $27, it's just annoying)

someone asked why you 3bet, i agree with the 3bet in this case, because if hero flats, he's probably dragging the 4 limpers with him, then he's set mining and possibly turning his hand into a bluff OTR. definitely could play it like that.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf
b/f to target A9/K9. Maybe 40/45$?
I totally disregarded hands like K9. Q9? I'm sure he would've bet two pair, wouldn't he?
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairPressure
I totally disregarded hands like K9. Q9? I'm sure he would've bet two pair, wouldn't he?
it's 1/2. a good chunk of people there play super passive. a good chunk think they should slow play pretty much any hand they get. as for this particular V, only you were at the table...
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairPressure
I totally disregarded hands like K9. Q9? I'm sure he would've bet two pair, wouldn't he?
Well, you know villain better than I do. If you disregard K9, then Q9 is basically the same thing (plus it beats you as you mention).

If you want to target even lower pairs, bet $30 again.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairPressure
I thought about this. My thinking was to isolate one player but you're right, there's already $20 in dead money so raising bigger would get a fold. How much though?
I'd make it near a pot sized raise, make him make a big mistake by calling. There's at least $19 in there of you include your call. So $8 + $19 = $27 leads me to believe your raise needs to be at least that.

Hijack opens to $8, Hero 3b to $27 to iso and for value. IMO

Edit: Re-read OP again, there's limpers so definitely more, I like $30 if not slightly more. If a limper limp/calls $30 that's lolworthy, but I've seen it @ $1/$2
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDeuce
I'd make it near a pot sized raise, make him make a big mistake by calling. There's at least $19 in there of you include your call. So $8 + $19 = $27 leads me to believe your raise needs to be at least that.

Hijack opens to $8, Hero 3b to $27 to iso and for value. IMO

Edit: Re-read OP again, there's limpers so definitely more, I like $30 if not slightly more. If a limper limp/calls $30 that's lolworthy, but I've seen it @ $1/$2
don't ever bet this to $27. bet it to $30 or $25. once you bet over $15, bet in $5 increments. it speeds the game up. i know people do it all the time, but think of all the time saved by the dealer not making change for the jackass who 3bet $16, gets 5 callers who all throw in $20, now the dealer has to change all that. eventually that leads to more fills.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 01:04 PM
I see my mistake now, I was off $8 - $10 on my bet sizing pre. Funny, if I had say QQ - AA I'd probably bet At least $25. Then this would also allow me to rep a hand that can fold villain's 10 to JJ perhaps.

What about line on T & R?
Value betting with two black 10s Quote
10-27-2013 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
don't ever bet this to $27. bet it to $30 or $25. once you bet over $15, bet in $5 increments. it speeds the game up. i know people do it all the time, but think of all the time saved by the dealer not making change for the jackass who 3bet $16, gets 5 callers who all throw in $20, now the dealer has to change all that. eventually that leads to more fills.
Makes absolute sense, live is slow enough as it is. As someone who has spent significant time dealing, this is definitely helpful.
Value betting with two black 10s Quote

      
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