I play at the 1/2 NL tables and have noticed two tells on a somewhat regular basis. Has anyone else found these to be reliable indicators?

1. I have a hand like AJ and the board is
TQ772

Only two players left in the hand.
Villain is first to act and he checks. I'm last to act and bet say say $50 into a pot of $50 and I have $200 behind. Villain tanks and appears as if he's deciding whether to call and it's a really difficult decision. So I'm patiently waiting for a call or fold and suddenly he raises all in - I call and he tables QQ. This happened to me twice and both times I lost to the nut full house. I'm concluding that when villains tank and hollywood as if calling is a tough decision and then go all in, it might be time to reevaluate and possibly fold.

2. I'm considering betting and upon looking at villain, he has his hands on his chips looking almost eager to make a snap call. In these situations, I've generally noticed that villain has a hand with some show down value and he may grudgingly call a bet but in general he doesn't want to. I find myself doing this to and I'm trying to stop it - I'll act like I'm counting out my chips ready to make a call in order to discourage a large bet so I can go to show down. In situations like these, it would make sense to bet small if you want a call and overbet if you want a fold.

1. I am curious how all the money did not go in on the flop

2. Very common.

Quite common, really.

I also noticed that generally live fish and wannabe Matt Damons will start stacking or counting chips when they have position on you and you look to be in a position of strength. They're trying to induce a check and then themselves tank/check because they're sooo weak.
What I mean is that it's so infrequently genuine. When I raise pf and get heads up, if the player I'm against has position on me and I see them getting ready to bet, I always fire that cbet because villian is that much more likely to fold if they like to act at the tables.

On 1, the bigger tell is the c/r all-in. You have the nut flush, and the board is paired. Not many villains do suicidal all ins there.

For 2, somewhat consistent among regs. You really need to observe someone over time to see how accurate this is from player to player.

Both are very common. I would fold hand 1 after his acting job.

Chris Moneymaker does this in the 2006 WSOP with top set of Kings. Terrible acting.

Probably all learned from Mike in Rounders...

"I am going to go all-in, because I don't believe you have the flush..."

what i like to do as a reverse tell so maybe a lot of people do this as a tell is before wanting to put someone AI i count my chips or whatever then i look at them right before i make my move as if im looking for weakness then i go AI. it works usually.

also ive done the swallow when being stared at and tht worked once.

also ive noticed when someone says sht like careful or they grab a bunch of chips as your about to bet all open and demonstrative they are usually weak, this is what OP was saying though right?

but tells differ so much to everyone. one thing i try to do is when someone has a big decision i look at their breathing then hopefully i see their hand and then i can assign what that means to them.

also how they throw in their chips is big for me. I got 2 solid tells i think on 2 regs, 1 an aggro and other more of a TAG, both somewhat decent. when they have a big hand they know ow much they bet and its somewhat neat. when they try to push you off a hand or somewhat weak they just grab a bunch of chips and put it out there.

Usually when the guy is struggling to controll his breathing as if he's about to jump off a plane...it's a big hand.

To make use of reverse tells you have to be sure that villain is picking up on your tells. For example in hand one villain let off a strong tell but hero still called. So we couldn't be making a pained expression and then shipping it as a bluff.

For lower limits for sure, and many times higher limits as well, the NLH live table is merely a stage for wannabe actors to sit down and give it a shot. If you sit back, observe, and use pure good sense it is easy to read through a ton of these players.

They are no more than human beings attempting on the spot to be some kind of great actor like Gene Hackman.

So we do not know the guy right?
But...

The money behind is significant so even an idiot will want some type of security...in the hand he holds when chk/shoving. (More than medium flush)

Chk shoving is usually reserved for monster hands rather than medium.

He tanks for some reason. What could it be if he shoves? Any possible hand
....make sense to tank but then shove? (Other than nuts?)

We hold the nut flush.

He is going through all this acting with some medium flush? Doubt it.


Run down the right questions in real time, and this is like a slight wince and easy fold.

number 1 is spot on, the tank shove after checking is always the goods.

number 2 is also usually reliable, though occasionly you'll run into a guy that calls like that, almost defianetly or something.

WE LANDED ON THE MOON!!!!!

One of my favorite occurrences at the table is when one player is so happy that he THINKS he sees or has realized a tell on another he's up against, that he calls that player out on it, aloud.

If that doesn't always deserve a "cool story, brah" when it happens, I don't know what does.

this

1. Yeah, c/rAI is just the nuts way too often there, but I feel like when it's not a huge nit but an middle-aged guy, they'll legit have smaller flushes sometimes that they can't fold and decide to just shove with it as well as boats

2. I saw one guy doing this a lot, and he snap-folded everytime I actually bet. On the other hand, saw a lot of different Asian guys doing this, and always calling anyway.

^ thats just what middle-aged Asian guys do. They are some of the biggest stations in the game.

Who knows if that actually works, but I almost can't resist doing it while I'm sitting there praying for a call....lol.

Suggested reading that will explain it.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...player-815735/

Take note of "playing backwards"

Excellent post as usual ANL

Some more thoughts on "tells".

As ANL hints at in his post, you have to think things thru. You have to have some empathy to put yourself in the villains shoes and have enough experience at the felt to have a clue what the typical player is likely thinking.

Humans evolved in a very visual world. Our ancestors had to be good at reading when the dominate male was pissed off and looking to take it out on the next guy and avoid it. When the hot female wanted to mate with him. When someone didn't like them, and so and so on.

So use those inherited skills. Just stepping back from the situation and looking at objectively will go a long way. Listen to your gut, your subconscious mind will be working hard in the game and its only way to "tell you" something is that gut feeling. Put your gut feeling with objective and logical thought and the majority of the time you will come up with the right answer.

#2 is straight out of Caro's book

#2 is USUALLY someone trying to trick you into checking so they can get a free card, but not always. Last night an 80ish year old white guy did it to me on the flop so I bet my medium strength hand a little stronger than I normally would. He insta-shoves before I'm done pushing my bet forward. Apparently he really was simply getting his chips ready to shove.

Overall it's still reliable enough to act on if you don't have any reason to doubt it, though.