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Turned two pair Turned two pair

02-26-2017 , 12:29 PM
1/2 club game

V1 (350) - decent reg. Good hand reader. Can spew especially when drunk but not drunk yet tonight. Can definitely find folds post flop. Has straddled UTG 3-4 times but hasn't raised yet.
V2 (575) decent reg. Overvalues top pair. Capable of bluffing but usually not for stacks. Has lost a lot of pots to H in the past month or two, both at showdown and folding before showdown.
V3 (100) fish here w her boyfriend. Completely poker newbie.
V4 (400) first time at this club. Seems like a fish, calling w k-high no pair no draw on an A high board.
H ( covers) should have a winning and aggressive image to V1 and V2. Made a huge semi bluff against V1 earlier tonight and he folded the NFD. Been owning B3 recently. Doubt H has any image to V3 or 4.

V1 straddles 5. V2 and V3 Limp from MP. H limps 8h6h from CO. V4 limps from SB. V1 makes it 25 UTG. V1, H and V4 call.

I think first limp is ok. Btn was a nit so H has position for the rest of the hand 90% of the time. Once V1 raises it's probably a fold for $20 more but H makes a loose call given stack sizes and position.

Flop (100) Js8s4x - checks around
Turn (100) 6c - V1 bets 45, V2 calls, H raises to 200. V4 folds, V1 folds, V2 thinks a bit and calls.
Think I need to raise turn here and I would semi bluff some time. Expect V1 to c bet with anything that could beat two pair and V2 to either bet flop once PFR checks or raise turn with a very strong hand. Thoughts on sizing? My plan for rivers was to value bet non-spades.

River (500) 3h - V1 leads 100 leaving about 225 behind. Hero? Never folding but can we raise here?

Last edited by Garick; 02-26-2017 at 02:18 PM. Reason: corrected river card
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02-26-2017 , 01:11 PM
Edit, the below was written IRT the wrong river card. Disregard.

Never folding? Really? I know you said he overvalues TP, but he flatted twice OTF and then led a spade river tiny. Does he really have anything you beat, if so, does any of it call a raise and does anything that beats you fold for 1/3 pot?

I mean, I probably make a crying call here, since we only have to be good 17% of the time, but I think long and hard before I do, as I'm not sure we're even good 15% of the time, given the board and the action.

Last edited by Garick; 02-26-2017 at 02:18 PM.
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02-26-2017 , 01:45 PM
Again, about the wrong river card...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Never folding? Really? I know you said he overvalues TP, but he flatted twice OTF and then led a spade river tiny. Does he really have anything you beat, if so, does any of it call a raise and does anything that beats you fold for 1/3 pot?

I mean, I probably make a crying call here, since we only have to be good 17% of the time, but I think long and hard before I do, as I'm not sure we're even good 15% of the time, given the board and the action.
So I guess you don't like a shove . I can't really find a fold here. Hard to see a lot that I'm beat by. Would expect V2 to bet flop with a flopped set once the PRR checks, and cerI guess a set of 6s is possible but I block that. He could have 75 but would expect that to fold pre a lot, so maybe just some 75s combos. Hard to see him showing up with a better two pair here.

Also, to clarify he flatted twice OTT rather than the flop, so he's had 3 chances to take aggressive action and hasn't yet.

Last edited by Garick; 02-26-2017 at 02:19 PM.
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02-26-2017 , 02:12 PM
You don't see flushes in his range?
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02-26-2017 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
You don't see flushes in his range?
Shoot I screwed up the action. River was a heart so no flushes. Wish I could still edit OP. That should learn me not to post while watching my kids.
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02-26-2017 , 02:17 PM
Oh. Yeah that changes thins a bit. I can edit the OP, but no time to reply in depth right now. I could probably get behind a raise, though.
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02-26-2017 , 03:06 PM
Didnt want to bet the flop in position here? I probably would have done that. Lots of bad turns 4 handed and we dont seem too likely to get raised.
I like the turn raise and id flat the river. Even though we are ahead like 85% of the time, a raise tells a pretty convincing story and 1 pair hands are just not likely to call anyway.
From villains perspective, if you wanted to steal this pot, you had a chance on a wet flop after 2 checks but you chose not to. That would have been a more logical time to steal this imo, so you are more weighted towards straights, 66, and maybe some 2pair

Last edited by niceguy22; 02-26-2017 at 03:14 PM.
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02-26-2017 , 03:43 PM
I no you reference a loose call pre-flop, but why don't we raise from CO here, there is alot of dead money out there to collect with a hand that will play decent if we do get called.
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02-26-2017 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrabbit
I no you reference a loose call pre-flop, but why don't we raise from CO here, there is alot of dead money out there to collect with a hand that will play decent if we do get called.
I'm expecting it to go multi way even to a raise. Think V3 calls a ton, V4 as well, and V2 doesn't want to fold to me given dynamic. I wasn't surprised that it went 4-way when V1 made it 25. I'm playing 86s to bink or semi bluff with a draw which is why I think the second call pre was too loose.

I didn't bet flop for the same reason. If turn had checked to me I'd have bet even if I hadn't blinked the second pair.
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02-26-2017 , 04:40 PM
Pre flop: with stacks and position, this is a fun hand to call, esp if you've been running well and have control over most of your opponents.
Flop: I bet this flop most of the time. There are very few turn cards that help us, but a ton that hit our opponents ranges. Even if they don't make a bigger pair, lots of cards give them a draw, which might make them sticky.
Turn: I like the raise.
River: Call. Two pair is probably good here. But if V can call a raise here, your hand is probably no good. So it's unlikely you can win more by raising because he always calls with better and folds worse.
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03-01-2017 , 06:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback, and Garick thanks for editing for me.

Results - I just call his bet, he shows KJ and I take it down. I was a little confused by his small river bet and went to fast, wish I thought harder about shoving, though maybe it's too thin.
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03-01-2017 , 07:45 PM
pretty sweet game if that dude gets a "decent reg" label.
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03-01-2017 , 08:07 PM
Pre: I'm cool with it. I personally prefer raising it because I am more comfortable with an aggro image and these types of hands are good to increase our raising range from LP. Limping is fine too and I'm definitely not folding for another $20.

Flop: I prefer a bet once I am checked to. Doesn't need to be large. 40-45 should suffice. We don't really want to get a bunch of money in against flush draws here, just looking to fold out all of the overcard equity and set up a larger turn bet when we can actually get flush draws and possibly some marginal better hands to fold if we decide to go that route.

Turn: Raise feels a little big. I think $150 is enough, but I don't hate it.

River: I'm just calling his bet in game, but I wouldn't hate a raise either, as this looks like a blocker bet to try to get to a cheap showdown.
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03-01-2017 , 09:52 PM
Raise. He didn't raise pre in a straddled pot so JJ is pretty out of there. So realistically you block both 88 and 66, no straight and not flush got there so you're afraid of exactly J8 or 44. So I guess the key question is does he have a hand strong enough to perhaps call a raise (TP or better) more often than he has J8 or 44.

If he had J8 or 44 after your strong action of raising into two people who have called on the turn I think a decent portion of the time he shoves. So we can already discount J8 or 44 a bit.

On the river when he donk bets like 1/5th pot this is either the nuts hoping you have a TP type hand that will check through getting thing value or a TP type hand itself trying to see a cheap showdown. I think you signaled with the turn raise that you either have 2PR+ or a big draw. In either case he should either have just shoved river or checked to you expecting a bet from both your 2PR+ and busted draws. For these reasons I shove.
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03-01-2017 , 09:57 PM
Also, if he folds we don't have to show the cheese we're playing. If he calls, we look like a maniac. Either of those should be better for our image than flatting here.
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03-01-2017 , 10:18 PM
Now that it's clear that the river card didn't complete the flush I think after the villain's small bet on the river I'm jamming for max value.
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03-01-2017 , 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai1b0ats
pretty sweet game if that dude gets a "decent reg" label.
Agreed. Don't see what hand a decent player could have here. If this reg is decent then OP must be world class to be able to raise the river for value after turn action.
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