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Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3 Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3

05-24-2014 , 06:21 PM
1/3 game, generally loose passive.

Hero (270): 30s TAG. Playing very tight due to drought of quality pre-flop holdings.

V1 (150): 50s white guy. Makes a lot of small bets with both weak and strong holdings post-flop. Has a pre-flop raising range, but I don't have a good idea of what it is. My limited observation makes me think it includes big pairs but not much else.

V2 (200): 60s white guy. Very loose passive pre-flop. Often limps big pairs and big aces, but earlier this session he raised limpers with both J9o and 76o (the 76 was a huge overshove from the BB after he lost a big pot). Post-flop he makes a lot of small probing/blocking bets, doesn't often play big pairs/two pair/sets very fast, capable of folding big trap hands like underfulls, but also sometimes shoves draws or raises with a surprisingly wide range. Almost never bets/raises more than 1/2pot unless he's shoving. Seemed tilted earlier in the session, but I'm not sure he is at this point (kinda grumpy personality). I have significant history with this V including:

*Often value-owning myself after raising his limp with AT and AJ.
*Two weeks ago I pulled off a successful river bluff-raise in a big pot and showed it (and immediately regretted it).
*One week ago I rivered the nut flush IP, a LAG bet 35 into a ~60 pot, V2 called, I raised to 235, LAG folded, V2 tank-called with the J2 flush.
*Earlier this session I raised to 10 UTG, EP caller, V2 called in BB. Flop K62, V2 bets 6, I raise to 25, EP calls, V2 shoves for ~100, I fold, EP calls with AA. V2 mucks after river but says he had a K.

Hand in question:

Two MP limps including V2, I limp AJ in HJ, V1 completes in SB, BB checks.

Flop (29): KxT2
V1 bets 6, V2 and Hero call, all others fold.

Turn (46): Q
V1 bets 10, V2 raises to 20

Hero?

My best guess for ranges are:

V1: Kx, pair+draw hands, two pair, sets (less likely as I think he would raise KK and QQ pre, but he could def have 22 or maybe TT), straights, flushes.

V2: straights and flushes. Possibly sets, but I don't think he raises this board with a set. Could turn up here with a random holding, but most of his range should be straights and flushes.
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05-24-2014 , 07:23 PM
Raise and hope he has k high flush
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05-24-2014 , 07:26 PM
v2 has 170 behind and there's 76 in the pot. how do we get it all in? either by raising now to set up a reasonable-sized shove on river, or flatting now hoping to shove river over another bet from v2.

i don't think we are getting a lot more value from v1 unless we price him in and let him boat up. so i am not too worried about knocking him out.

sounds like we can't count on v2 to make a decent sized bet on river, and there are a lot of cards that can kill our action. therefore i think a raise to around 50 sets up a river shove pretty well.
Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3 Quote
05-24-2014 , 07:31 PM
Why are you limping pre? I feel like the only way you're getting more value is if you flat and hope for a brick river so they can bet/call off against you
Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3 Quote
05-24-2014 , 08:32 PM
It's probably accidentally, but V1's small turn bet is a very annoying probe bet from your perspective. It gets him a lot of information cheaply. The problem is that you can't help but look very strong here. Your flatting a bet and a minimum raise on the turn, at worse you have a set or a nut flush draw and it will really look like a straight, flush or straight+nut flush draw.

With two villains, I'm reraising here. You don't want to let somebody with a set or two pair chase cheaply. More importantly here, there are a lot of river cards that kill your action even if they don't beat you, anything pairing the board and any more hearts hitting either beat you or keep you from making any money. Sizing here is interesting, because any raise is really enough to setup a river shove if your called. However, you need to go a bit more then a minimum raise to avoid pricing villains in, and a minimum 3 bet screams of absolute nuts anyways. I think $60-$75 here looks good depending on what villains will call. You should also occasionally just shove here. Villains may put you on a straight with the ace of hearts, or some other big non-nut hands that has outs.

Also, preflop or flop should should be a raise some of the time. Preflop is situational, depending on how villains respond to a raise and flop c-bets. On flop, you have a big draw and should be raising here unless one of the villains is likely to shove over top. Your draw isn't so big your happy to move in on flop, but your priced in against most hands villain can have.
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05-25-2014 , 12:26 AM
Raise pre
Raise flop
Raise turn
Raise any river

Easy game
Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3 Quote
05-25-2014 , 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakeatron
Why are you limping pre?
Against opponents with standard pre-flop raising ranges I would raise AJs 100% after two limps. But in this game most players habitually limp with AK and AQ and are also sticky with weak one-pair hands post-flop. So I've been playing with my pre-flop strategy with medium broadway hands to avoid creating bloated pots that I have little chance of winning.

In this case I decided it would be better to keep my opponents' ranges weak and avoid bloating a pot in which I'm likely to win only if I flop the best hand. I'm not certain that's the best strategy, but it's tough to find the best line against opponents who refuse to define their range for you pre-flop.
Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3 Quote
05-25-2014 , 03:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
It's probably accidentally, but V1's small turn bet is a very annoying probe bet from your perspective. It gets him a lot of information cheaply. The problem is that you can't help but look very strong here.
SO annoying. And I really hated the min-raise from V2. It puts so little extra money in the pot, and forces me to reveal the strength of my hand. Of course I love having the nuts, but I absolutely hated being in this spot.
Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3 Quote
05-25-2014 , 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
On flop, you have a big draw and should be raising here unless one of the villains is likely to shove over top. Your draw isn't so big your happy to move in on flop, but your priced in against most hands villain can have.
I certainly considered raising the flop. I didn't feel like I had a ton of fold equity, and there wasn't much in the pot. Maybe raising would've been best, but I usually like to be able to shove the flop when I'm semi-bluffing to get the money in while I have two cards to hit and have max equity, and to avoid navigating a difficult situation if I don't bink on the turn.

On the other hand, calling a $6 bet is clearly profitable; and I didn't really have a good idea how strong either villain was, and how they were likely to react to a big raise.

Definitely a 'not really sure where I'm at, so I'll just call' spot :/
Turned Nut Flush - Line Check 1/3 Quote
05-25-2014 , 03:40 PM
Thanks for the replies - I definitely had the attitude that flatting and allowing V1 to draw to a full house was too dangerous. Especially since V2 isn't likely to bet big on the river.

Result: I raise to 55, V1 folds quickly, V2 angrily asked how much it was then threw his cards in the muck after less than 10 seconds. *sigh*
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05-25-2014 , 04:44 PM
Raise to 30 just because
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05-26-2014 , 12:17 PM
I'm fine with limping AJs in EP at loose tables, but in LP I'm typically raising it (i.e. I'm fine with making big pots in position with good hands, not so much OOP).

I would raise the flop. The bet and call is for a rather lol size so we should have some FE to go along with our great hand equity. I'm actually a little torn on the sizing. Part of me just wants to lol make it $20 to build the pot with our good equity while probably giving myself a free turn card. Another part of me wants to raise to $50 so that we maximize our FE (although we're really not looking to play for stacks against anyone else who wants to due to their being very little in the pot compared to stacks behind, so perhaps a smaller raise is better for this reason).

Definitely raising the turn. Smaller flushes, straights, two pairs, sets, pair + draw, are all over this board, we're definitely getting called. I would go $75+ in order to setup a shove on the river.

I don't often say this as I'm one of the more passive posters here and believe aggression is sometimes overdone at these levels, but I think we played too passively here.

GforumaggrotardG
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