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Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in?

02-07-2024 , 01:28 PM
This was a 2/5 Live game with $300 spread limit (Washington State Law...no individual bet over $300).

I was sitting with As-Ks UTG. I check pre-flop, middle position raises to $20, action folds to me and I raise to $60 and MP calls. Villain has approximately $1000 behind.

Flop is Kd-7s-9s. I check the flop, MP makes it $60 and I call.

Turn is 3s and I make the nut flush. I lead out for $190, MP raises it $300 to $490, and action is on me.

In this spot, the only thing I'm worried about is that villain has a set and pairs the board on the river. The $300 raise is either a semi-bluff with the set (knowing that I can already have the flush potentially, but perhaps non-nut flush), or alternatively opponent is raising with the non-nut flush.

My options here are to call the $300, and then lead out for $300 on the river and hope that villain calls it off. Or, to repop immediately another $300 and hope that villain will pay to see the river.

I decide to repop the turn, villain tanks and then folds.

Just curious how others would have played this. Still a really nice pot, and I didn't have to go to showdown, so perhaps there is some value there for future hands against villain. But if the goal is to get all of villains chips in then I think I potentially left some value on the table...
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 01:44 PM
Being OOP, I would re-raise him ott as well. If you had position on him and he c/r'd you, then we can flat because we're last to act otr so we'll be sure to get more $$ in the pot but it's harder to do that when we're OOP because we're risking him checking it back.

And don't worry about him boating up, these things shouldn't be a considering factor while making these decision.
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 02:59 PM
1. Don't post results
2. How do you check pre-UTG? Did you limp? If so were we planning to c/r always, and if so why, vs. initial raise UTG?
3. What do we know about villain?
4. Flop is kinda interesting. We have a lot of equity. I choose probably to c-bet here, but checking is not terrible
5. Turn can go either way. Likely either a set or smaller flush. I just don't see people fold enough here, so I probably raise again.
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 03:55 PM
1. Don't post results
Ok will remember for next time

2. How do you check pre-UTG? Did you limp? If so were we planning to c/r always, and if so why, vs. initial raise UTG?
I'm first to act with a strong hand. I'm not really sure how to size here. If I make it something small like $20, then I'm inviting in a lot of callers. If I go too big, there is no money in the pot and everyone might just fold because the pot odds don't make sense to call. I'm not saying I would never bet out here, but I'm trying to mix it up and not always bet out a strong hand, esp. UTG. Not always planning to C/R, but with this hand I will do so pretty often. A pretty standard bluff in this game is to check raise semi-big to induce folds (i.e. limpers coming in for the $20 open), so I don't think it gives away my hand.

3. What do we know about villain?
I have not played with villain before that I can remember. He is decently stacked for this game and doesn't look like a fish. Other than that nothing.

4. Flop is kinda interesting. We have a lot of equity. I choose probably to c-bet here, but checking is not terrible
Similar to #2, it's not a play I make every time, but villain seems down to gamble and I will let him get the money in bad. I'm also drawing to the nuts so there is some advantage in disguising the strength of my hand.

5. Turn can go either way. Likely either a set or smaller flush. I just don't see people fold enough here, so I probably raise again.
I led out the turn, but with a non-standard bet size, which I thought might show weakness (in a $300 spread game, betting big but not $300 can be a sign you're trying to bluff your opponent but don't want to commit too many chips to do so). If I am villain with non-nut flush, I am never raising here without the nut flush, since the board is relatively dry except for the flush possibilities. If I have a set I might get it in to pray for the board to pair and the implied odds of stacking my opponent with the flush; this was the play I was worried villain might run against me, with the $300 raise a way of gauging the strength of my hand (I may fold a weaker flush or even a set once the flush possibility is available).
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 03:55 PM
Yeah people semi bluff with sets on 3 flush boards all the time. To try to make flush fold
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 03:59 PM
6. The player should feel too committed to fold to a raise ott after putting in $610
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimstard
Yeah people semi bluff with sets on 3 flush boards all the time. To try to make flush fold
I repopped villain and he folded. Obviously that's way harder to do if you don't already have the nut flush in your hand, but if you had a set, it's not illogical to repop and hope for a fold, but still be drawing live on the river. The absolute worst spot is the spot villain was in here, where he's reraising $300 with 0% to win.
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 04:19 PM
RTS

Spoiler:
He could of also been raising as a bluff or semi bluff. If you flatted and another spade came out otr, it will probably kill any further action from him anyway.
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 04:41 PM
All you can eat baby
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 06:28 PM
PRE - I'm assuming you actually limped UTG, since you can't literally check.

Limping to back-raise is something I would sometimes do at 1/3, where the opens are larger relative to stack sizes. I don't see it done much at 2/5. I would probably just open to whatever the normal opening size is in the game, be it $15 or $20, whatever, and hope someone wants to iso-3B.

As played, if you're going to limp-3B from OOP, I think you need to go bigger than 3x. Raise at least 4x, if not 5x.

FLOP - you 3B pre, and flop TPTK with the NFD. I'd c-bet at least 1/3 pot.

As played, when you check the flop, I guess you could x/r if he bet smaller, but when he bets 1/2 pot, x/r'ing could scare away all his bluffs and worse value hands. I think you just need to call here.

TURN - There's $240 in the pot. If the betting limit is $300, then I'd over-bet to $300, to polarize. You could have a lot of AKo with the As, or AA with the As, etc. You're not necessarily nutted when you over-bet the turn.

As played, when you bet 80% pot and he raises, he probably has a hand he's going with, so I'd put in another raise. He's probably not folding a flush or a set for another $300, getting over 3:1 on his call. He was most likely bluffing, and wouldn't have called off your river bet anyway.
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote
02-07-2024 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docvail
PRE - I'm assuming you actually limped UTG, since you can't literally check.

Limping to back-raise is something I would sometimes do at 1/3, where the opens are larger relative to stack sizes. I don't see it done much at 2/5. I would probably just open to whatever the normal opening size is in the game, be it $15 or $20, whatever, and hope someone wants to iso-3B.

As played, if you're going to limp-3B from OOP, I think you need to go bigger than 3x. Raise at least 4x, if not 5x.

FLOP - you 3B pre, and flop TPTK with the NFD. I'd c-bet at least 1/3 pot.

As played, when you check the flop, I guess you could x/r if he bet smaller, but when he bets 1/2 pot, x/r'ing could scare away all his bluffs and worse value hands. I think you just need to call here.

TURN - There's $240 in the pot. If the betting limit is $300, then I'd over-bet to $300, to polarize. You could have a lot of AKo with the As, or AA with the As, etc. You're not necessarily nutted when you over-bet the turn.

As played, when you bet 80% pot and he raises, he probably has a hand he's going with, so I'd put in another raise. He's probably not folding a flush or a set for another $300, getting over 3:1 on his call. He was most likely bluffing, and wouldn't have called off your river bet anyway.
This is what pushes it over the edge to me. He's almost getting close to the needed odds for his set to boat up, not to mention the implied odds of getting more on the river out of you.

Another spade on the river and he's probably folding everything, so let's get aqs much money in now.
Turned the Nut Flush - How to get all the money in? Quote

      
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